charlesj Posted September 15, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 97 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2008 New here folks, but like the 'liberal' talk. Good for one to be able to express one's opinion without the normal rod of christian chastisement breaking our backs! I see a few topics where references are made to the 'Sabbath', and 'Messianics' 'dragging us back under the law'. Hmmm. Sad that people should see it this way, but that's 'liberalism' for you! Let's look at it this way. JC said, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. Cool! Sounds simple enough, at least in theory! So, WHAT exactly were His commandments ? Were all the old commandments done away with ? Well let us also remember that the NT tells us of the anti-christ, and the spirit of anti-christ, that creeps in, to deceive and lead astray. But it's in the Old Testament, that we actually have a more revealing aspect of this spirit of anti-christ: Dan 7:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted September 15, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2008 Is the Sabbath Moses Law? Or God's Law? God wrote it in stone with His finger. Moses didn't write in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain27 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Is the Sabbath Moses Law? Or God's Law? If it is God's Law (which is what the Bible says) then Jesus kept it because He is God, He would not and could not contradict Himself. If anyone does not keep a Law of God then yes they sin, just the same as adultery or theft, you break those and you sin. We can be forgiven of course but it's still a sin. We also do not know who did or did not keep the Sabbath, so I can not comment on the actions of Adam or anyone else. The Seventh day has been set aside (made Holy) from the beginning of time, so I would assume Adam kept it and followed the example of His God. As far as stoning goes that would be the "penalty or curse" of the Law, Christ bore that for us (Thank God), so hopefully we will not misuse that Gift. it is a part of the Mosaic law. Those before Moses were not required to keep it, which would indicate it is not a universal law of God. There is no mention of the Sabbath until Moses. If we are too keep it, why is there no command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy? Why is the weekly Sabbath commandment never quoted in the New Testament? It is a Law of God written by His finger (it is not Moses' Law). If those before were not required to keep it then I'm sure God will judge then accordingly, He is fair, if they did not know then I'm sure God will not judge them by it. If a 2 year old takes (steals) a piece of candy from the store but did not know it was stealing do you think God will judge that child as though they sinned or do you think He would understand their innocent hearts? If Adam didn't know and God hadn't told Him then God will not judge Adam based on something Adam was unaware of, that would be cruel and unfair. There's no direct quote of the Sabbath commandment in the New Testament because it was assumed that believers were already keeping it. Paul kept it, Christ kept it etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted September 15, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2008 it is a part of the Mosaic law. Those before Moses were not required to keep it, which would indicate it is not a universal law of God. There is no mention of the Sabbath until Moses. If we are too keep it, why is there no command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy? Why is the weekly Sabbath commandment never quoted in the New Testament? There was no written law prior to Moses . . . but that doesn't mean there was no law. Ge 26:4 "And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." The Sabbath was instituted by God on the seventh day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted September 15, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2008 There was no written law prior to Moses . . . but that doesn't mean there was no law. Ge 26:4 "And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." The Sabbath was instituted by God on the seventh day. there is no example of any one prior to Moses keeping this day Holy or apart. Not one I would agree with Shiloh's logic here- The Bible also never mentions Grandfathers. So that argument is really not valid as it is an argument from silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I would agree with Shiloh's logic here- The Bible also never mentions Grandfathers. So that argument is really not valid as it is an argument from silence. that might work, except that the Sabbath is mentioned, it is mentioned in conjunction with the Mosaic law when it is given to Moses and it is not mentioned again after the resurrection of Jesus except as a day of the week that the Apostles took advantage of to meet with the Jewish people to tell them about Jesus actually that is technically true but still incorrect. The Sabbath is mentioned as still being in effect LONG after the resurrection in Isaiah 66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I would agree with Shiloh's logic here- The Bible also never mentions Grandfathers. So that argument is really not valid as it is an argument from silence. that might work, except that the Sabbath is mentioned, it is mentioned in conjunction with the Mosaic law when it is given to Moses and it is not mentioned again after the resurrection of Jesus except as a day of the week that the Apostles took advantage of to meet with the Jewish people to tell them about Jesus actually that is technically true but still incorrect. The Sabbath is mentioned as still being in effect LONG after the resurrection in Isaiah 66 that seems to be a stretch... From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. This seems to be speaking of a day, like Friday, not the "dont do any work" Sabboth. If this is a reference to the Holy day Sabboth, what does the New Moon equal to? Read it. God is capable of putting words together into a grammatical sentence. New moon means new moon. Sabbath means Sabbath . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted September 16, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2008 I would agree with Shiloh's logic here- The Bible also never mentions Grandfathers. So that argument is really not valid as it is an argument from silence. that might work, except that the Sabbath is mentioned, it is mentioned in conjunction with the Mosaic law when it is given to Moses and it is not mentioned again after the resurrection of Jesus except as a day of the week that the Apostles took advantage of to meet with the Jewish people to tell them about Jesus actually that is technically true but still incorrect. The Sabbath is mentioned as still being in effect LONG after the resurrection in Isaiah 66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain27 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 It is a Law of God written by His finger (it is not Moses' Law). If those before were not required to keep it then I'm sure God will judge then accordingly, He is fair, if they did not know then I'm sure God will not judge them by it. If a 2 year old takes (steals) a piece of candy from the store but did not know it was stealing do you think God will judge that child as though they sinned or do you think He would understand their innocent hearts? If Adam didn't know and God hadn't told Him then God will not judge Adam based on something Adam was unaware of, that would be cruel and unfair. There's no direct quote of the Sabbath commandment in the New Testament because it was assumed that believers were already keeping it. Paul kept it, Christ kept it etc. yes, it was the Law of God given to Moses under the Mosaic covenant. If one does not fall under this covenant, they are not bound by the laws given to Moses. If you argue for keeping this part of the law, you then need to keep all 1000 plus rules of the laws, which I will assume you dont. There is no example of anyone after the resurrection keeping the laws of the Sabbath. There is no record of Paul keeping it. I don't have much time, I will reply further when I get a chance. In answer to your thought, it is the Law of God that was given to Israel (a mixed multitude). No one is "bound" by the any Law, old or new testament, as a means to earn salvation. As far as keeping ALL the Law, I can say that I keep the Law. Keeping the Law doesn't mean you are perfect, to "keep" the Law means that you "safely keep it, protect it, guard it, let no one make it common (profane) etc." Can I ask this... David kept the Law, he declares that through out Psalms, did King David lie when he proclaimed this? Paul kept the Sabbath after the resurrection... Otherwise he lied when he said this: Acts 25 6 And when he had remained among them more than ten days, he went down to Caesarea. And the next day, sitting on the judgment seat, he commanded Paul to be brought. 7 When he had come, the Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood about and laid many serious complaints against Paul, which they could not prove, 8 while he answered for himself, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted September 16, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2008 It is a Law of God written by His finger (it is not Moses' Law). If those before were not required to keep it then I'm sure God will judge then accordingly, He is fair, if they did not know then I'm sure God will not judge them by it. If a 2 year old takes (steals) a piece of candy from the store but did not know it was stealing do you think God will judge that child as though they sinned or do you think He would understand their innocent hearts? If Adam didn't know and God hadn't told Him then God will not judge Adam based on something Adam was unaware of, that would be cruel and unfair. There's no direct quote of the Sabbath commandment in the New Testament because it was assumed that believers were already keeping it. Paul kept it, Christ kept it etc. yes, it was the Law of God given to Moses under the Mosaic covenant. If one does not fall under this covenant, they are not bound by the laws given to Moses. If you argue for keeping this part of the law, you then need to keep all 1000 plus rules of the laws, which I will assume you dont. There is no example of anyone after the resurrection keeping the laws of the Sabbath. There is no record of Paul keeping it. I don't have much time, I will reply further when I get a chance. In answer to your thought, it is the Law of God that was given to Israel (a mixed multitude). No one is "bound" by the any Law, old or new testament, as a means to earn salvation. As far as keeping ALL the Law, I can say that I keep the Law. Keeping the Law doesn't mean you are perfect, to "keep" the Law means that you "safely keep it, protect it, guard it, let no one make it common (profane) etc." Can I ask this... David kept the Law, he declares that through out Psalms, did King David lie when he proclaimed this? Paul kept the Sabbath after the resurrection... Otherwise he lied when he said this: Acts 25 6 And when he had remained among them more than ten days, he went down to Caesarea. And the next day, sitting on the judgment seat, he commanded Paul to be brought. 7 When he had come, the Jews who had come down from Jerusalem stood about and laid many serious complaints against Paul, which they could not prove, 8 while he answered for himself, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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