Giants and the sons of god

[4Pillars]

The source originated on the 5th Day when God created EVERY living creature that moveth, from the water abundantly Gen 1:21. This includes the making of the "prehistoric beings" as referred to by our scientist, but called sons of God by our Lord. And God bless THEM and told THEM to multiply as documented on the 5th day (Genesis 1:22). Genesis 6 tells us that when they married the daughters of Adam, Great and Mighty men, were the offspring.

Cain's descendants were a dead end. After some 1620 years, they were all destroyed in the universal Flood.

Today's Humans can trace their origin to Adam through Seth. God also called Adam and Eve's name "Adam" (Hebrew-mankind) in the Day they were created in God's Image. Gen 5:2

The source on this Planet was Noah. When Noah arrived, his sons were married, but his grandsons, like Cain, married the Prehistoric people who were here when Noah arrived.

Incest is NEVER part of the blessing of our Lord, in the process of multiplication of mankind. This filthy assumption of other religious views is only based on the imagination of those who don

Edited May 24, 2007 by 4Pillars

[EricH]

The source originated on the 5th Day when God created EVERY living creature that moveth, from the water abundantly Gen 1:21. This includes the making of the "prehistoric beings" as referred to by our scientist, but called sons of God by our Lord. And God bless THEM and told THEM to multiply on the 5th day (Genesis 1:22). Genesis 6 tells us that when they married the daughters of Adam, Great and Mighty men, were the offspring.

Cain's descendants were a dead end. After some 1620 years, they were all destroyed in the universal Flood.

Today's Humans can trace their origin to Adam through Seth. God also called Adam and Eve's name "Adam" (Hebrew-mankind) in the Day they were created in God's Image. Gen 5:2

The source on this Planet was Noah. When Noah arrived, his sons were married, but his grandsons, like Cain, married the Prehistoric people who were here when Noah arrived.

Incest is NEVER part of the blessing of our Lord, in the process of multiplication of mankind. This filthy assumption of other religious view is only based on the imagination of those who don

[4Pillars]

If I undestand what you are saying, there werre people (other than Noah and his family) that survived the flood. This simply cannot be sustained by the scriptural accounts in Genesis. Your suppostion appears to be that the Flood occured on one planet, then Noah came by Spaceship to earth.

Dear EricH,

ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven. IOW, in 1/30th of a second, God takes people from one world to another. God speaks and events happen. This is something which those who worship the Physical, have trouble understanding.

Was Paul a Spaceship? Of course not. Neither was the Ark a Spaceship nor Noah a Spaceman. They were brought to this Planet similar to the way, Paul, the Apostle, was taken to the 3rd Heaven. All Christians will be taken to the 3rd Heaven, at the Rapture. Would you call them a fleet of Spaceships?

The first Heaven was destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:5-7 The present second Heaven (our world) will be Burned. ll Peter 3:7 The third Heaven is where Jesus has gone to prepare a place for us. It is beyond our World.

John 14:1-2 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. V2 In my Father's house are MANY MANSIONS: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

God Bless

Edited May 24, 2007 by 4Pillars

[Servus Christi]

<font color='#000000'>Angel just a suggestion if your studying this. Pick up a Tanakh, it's the OT from the original Hebrew translated into English. You will be delighted to know they use the correct wording here. Example 6:4 It was then and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth-when the DEVINE BEINGS cohabitated with the daughters of men, who bore them offspring.

Some time ago I studied the history of the changes made from the original Hebrew to the English we have today. I don't remember for sure but I think it had to do with the Catholic Church thinking something about our lack of understanding or something. But don't take that to the bank, all I know for sure is it was changed. The words devine beings was replaced with the words sons of God throughout, so the Tanakh is easier to follow if you are studying this.

In Yashua's Love

Shilou</font>

Nephelim, is the congugated form of "nephel" in Hebrew. Nephel meaning fallen one, or fallen ones. I believe this is in reference to Cain's lineage.

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Servus Christi

[Guest Christopher_John]

Nephelim, is the congugated form of "nephel" in Hebrew. Nephel meaning fallen one, or fallen ones. I believe this is in reference to Cain's lineage.

Beatus Dei, ave Christos!

Servus Christi

I would go with that understanding it if we were trying to go inconsistent with scripture but the fact is, scripturally the sons of God was always a reference in the Old Testament to angels. I think this can clear it up, its long but by far one of the most inclusive and intensive Biblical studies on this issue that I have ever come across concerning the Nephilim.

Peace

CJ

(1) The Multiplication of Humanity: Genesis 6:1

And it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the ground and daughters were born unto them.

Verse 1 emphasizes the multiplication of humanity before the Flood. The Hebrew word for men used here is generic and refers to humanity in general, including male and female. The word, as such, cannot be limited to the sons of Cain. It included both Sethites and Cainites, and both of these groups died in the flood.

Another key word found in verse 1 is daughters, a Hebrew word that means "females". The emphasis in the second part of verse 1:daughters were born unto them, is on the female portion of humanity. Again, the expression cannot be limited, as some teach, to the female descendants of Cain. It simply is a word that means "the female portion of the population." Verse 1 could read:"Men, humanity, multiplied, and daughters, females, were born unto them." The distinction in verse 1 is not between male Sethites and female Cainites, but the emphasis is on the female portion of humanity in general, which would include both Cainites and Sethites.

(2) The Intermarriage: Genesis 6:2

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Verse 2 describes an intermarriage.

(a) Sons of God

The first key phrase of verse 2 is: sons of God. The phrase the sons of God is a general term which means, "to be brought into existence by God's creative act." Because this term carries this meaning, it is used very selectively. Throughout the Old Testament, the term sons of God. is always used of angels. This is very clear when the same usage is compared with usages in the Old Testament. Elsewhere, the term is used in Job 1:6; 2:1; and 38:7. No one debates that the other places where sons of God. is found in the Old Testament clearly refers to angels. But some want to make Genesis 6:1-4 the one exception, though there is simply no warrant for making such an exception here.

In the New Testament, the term sons of God. is expanded. Adam is called the son of God. in Luke 3:38, because he was brought into existence by creation. Believers are called "sons of God." in John 1:12, because believers are considered to be a new creation according to Galatians 6:15. But in Genesis, the text is dealing with a specific Hebrew expression, benei elohim, and as it is used in the Hebrew Old Testament, it is a term that is always used of Angels. The distinction in this passage, then. is not between Sethites and Cainites, but between humanity and angels. The word men here emphasizes humanity; the term sons of God emphasizes angels.

(b) Daughters of Men

The second key expression in verse 2 is: daughters of men. This is a generic term for woman, which includes females of both Sethites and Cainites. What the verse is saying is: that the sons of God saw the daughters of men. There is no justification for this verse to be interpreted to mean, "godly males intermarried with ungodly females." Would truly godly men marry ungodly females? The daughters of men simply means "womankind," and The sons of God refers to angels. If the meaning is kept consistent with its usage elsewhere in the Old Testament, the passage is clearly speaking of fallen angels intermarrying with human woman. This is obvious in two ways.

First, it is always a one-way intermarriage; it is always sons of God marrying daughters of men. There is no record of "daughters of God" marrying "sons of men." If the distinction was between Sethites and Cainites, it simply would not happen this way. In human society, intermarriage occurs both ways. Today, saved males sometimes marry unsaved females, and sometimes saved females marry unsaved males. If the other claim were true, it would mean that male Sethites married female Cainites, but that male Cainites never married female Sethites which is entirely unlikely. Intermarriage would thus be confined to godly men with ungodly woman, but not godly woman with ungodly men. But in Genesis 6, there is only a one-way intermarriage, the sons of God intermarrying with the daughters of men.

Secondly, the context clearly speaks of a cohabitation that is unusual and unnatural and causes the worldwide Flood. Genesis 6:1-4 deals with the angelic cause of the worlwide Flood, while Genesis 6:5-6 deals with the human cause. Cohabitation between Sethites and Cainites would not be unusual or unnatural, while cohabitation between angels and humans would be.

Those who do not like this teaching object to it by quoting Mathew 22:30; claiming that this verse clearly teaches that angels are sexless: For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

What Yeshua said is that human beings at the resurrection and in heaven do not marry, nor are [they] given in marriage. The angels that Yeshua was speaking of are angels in heaven. The emphasis is that in heaven good angels neither marry, nor are given in marriage. Mathew 22:30 makes the same point about human beings. Humans in heaven do not marry, nor are they given in marriage. But what about humans here on earth? Humans on earth certainly do marry and are given in marriage. This is a contrast between what happens in heaven as over against what happens here on earth. Genesis 6, however, is speaking of angels on earth.

Angels in Heaven do not marry, nor are they given in marriage, and humans in heaven will not marry nor be given in marriage. Angels are never declared to be sexless; in fact, the masculine gender is always used. Mathew 22:30 teaches that angels do not procreate after their kind, meaning that angels do not give birth to other angels. In both the Old and New Testaments, angels are always described in the masculine gender, not in the feminine, nor the neuter. Whenever angels became visible, they always appeared as young men, never as woman (Gen. 18:1-19:22; Mk. 16:5-7; Lk 24:4-7; Acts 1:10-11). So Mathew 22:30 cannot be used as an argument against the angelic interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4 because it is dealing with a situation on earth, not in Heaven; nor does Mathew 22:30 teach that angels are sexless.

Another question is, "Why did Satan have some of his fallen angels intermarry with human woman? Why bother?" The reason can be understood by investigating the greater context of Genesis. Three chapters earlier, the first messianic prophecy is recorded (Gen. 3:15). This prophecy declared that the Messiah would be born of the Seed of the woman, and this Seed would crush the head of Satan. What was happening in Genesis 6:1-4 was a satanic attempt to corrupt the Seed of the woman by having some of his angels take on human form, again, angels always appear as young males when they take on human form, and intermarry with human kind to try to corrupt the Seed. Thus, events of Genesis 6:1-4 were a satanic attempt to nullify the prophecy of Genesis 3:15.

(3) The Result of the Intermarriage: Genesis 6:3

The result of this marriage was the judgment of God: And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

In verse 3, God pronounced the judgment: the Holy Spirit would not continue to strive with this kind of evil forever, and God decreed the destruction of humanity to be fulfilled one hundred and twenty years later. The means of the destruction would be the Flood. The purpose of the Flood was to destroy the product of the union of angels and woman, as discussed in the next verse.

(4) The Product of the Intermarriage: Genesis 6:4

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

To get a clearer concept of the meaning of this verse, individual parts must be discussed first.

(a) The Nephilim: The Fallen Ones

First is the name Nephilim. In some translations the word Nephilim has been translated to the word "giant". People reading this picture huge human beings. But the word in Hebrew does not mean giants, rather, it means, "fallen ones." The reason it was translated as giant is very interesting. In the Septuagint the Greek translation of the Old Testament done about 250 B.C., the Jewish scholars translated verse 4 by the Greek word gigentes, which means "Titan." Our English word "giant" comes from this Greek word, gigentes.

"But what were the Titans in Greek mythology?" They were part-man and part-god, because they were products of gods and men. When the Jewish scholars in 250 B.C. translated the word Nephilim to Greek, they used the Greek word for Titans, becuase they recognized this to be a union, not of two types of human beings, instead, they correctly viewed it as a union of angels and humans, which produced a being that was neither angelic nor human. These Jewish scholars, who lived so much closer to the time when Moses originally wrote this passage, clearly understood this to be an intermarriage between angels and human woman. As a result of this union, a new race of beings called the Nephilim, a race of fallen ones, came into being. They were gigentes, super, human, but not in size. They had extra capabilities, both mentally and physically, though they may not have been any larger than normal human beings.

It is from the events of Genesis 6:1-4 that the source of Greek and Roman mythologies was derived. These mythologies record how gods from Mount Olympus intermarried with human beings on earth and produced children who had super-human characteristics, and were greater than men but less than gods. Thus, the Book of Genesis details the true history of what happened, while Greek and Roman mythologies give the corrupted account. In Greek and Roman mythologies, the human perspective is given, and what happened is elevated to something special and glorified; but God called it sin.

(b) The Giborim: The Mighty Men

The second word to note in this verse is giborim, which is translated as the mighty men...the men of renown. Again, because this was a product of fallen angels and human woman, they were unique; they were the giborim. Notice that there is no mention of mighty woman, which would strange if this were a product of a normal union. After all, a normal union produces both males and females. If this were a natural union, then the product should have been mighty men and mighty women. But the result is only mighty men, because this is a new race of beings that is neither human nor angelic. The only way to explain the origin of the giborim is that they came from this union, which is the point of verse 4.

Only by the angelic explanation of Genesis 6 do other areas of biblical teaching make sense. It provides the only adequate explanation for certain statements in IIPeter and Jude, which will be studied next. It is a peculiar sin; it is connected to the Flood; and it is different from the original Fall of angels; otherwise, all fallen angels would be permanently confined.

b. IIPeter 2:4-5

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Verse 4 gives the location of the permanently confined demons. The temporarily confined demons are found in the abyss, but the permanently confined demons are elsewhere. The Greek word translated in this passage as hell is Tartarus. Tartarus is a section of Sheol or Hades where the permanently confined demons are located. Both the abyss and Tartarus are sections of Sheol or Hades. The abyss is for demons who are temporarily confined, but Tartarus is for demons who are permanently confined. Tartarus is referred to as pits of darkeness, and these angels are reserved [there] unto judgment. This will be the Great White Throne Judgment, the final judgment. This means that at no time will these angels ever be released. When the time comes, they will go directly from Tartarus to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment, and then be cast into the Lake of Fire. There will never be a time when they will be free to roam; they are permanently confined.

Verse 5 reveals the timing of their confinement, which was in conjunction with the Flood. This agrees well with the events of Genesis 6:1-4, which are events that are also connected with the Flood. The purpose of the Flood was to destroy this product of fallen angels and human woman.

By comparing the IIPeter passage with the Genesis passage, there is good evidence to show that Genesis is not speaking about Sethites intermarrying with Cainites, but fallen angels intermarrying with human women. This is a valid conclusion just from a study of the Old Testament passages themselves. However, the New Testament also supports this particular interpretation.

c. Jude 6-7

And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Verse 6 emphasized the fall of a select group of angels and described their fall in four statements.

First: they kept not their own principality. The word principality is frequently used of the angelic realm and is one of the various ranks within the angelic realm. It means that they did not remain in their position and place of rank within the satanic cosmos.

Secondly: they left their proper habitation. They left the demonic-angelic sphere of operation and entered into the human sphere by taking on the form of young men and intermarrying with human woman.

Thirdly: they are now kept in everlasting bonds under darkness. Here, Jude mentioned the same thing as Peter; that these angels are now permanently confined. Peter also revealed the place of their confinement: Tartarus.

Fourthly: they are kept there until the judgment of the great day. Again Jude reaffirms Peter's statements that they are kept in bondage until the judgment of the great day. This also is the Great White Throne Judgment. Once again, it is reaffirmed that these demons will never be free to roam around but are permanently confined in Tartarus. When the time comes, they will be taken out of Tartarus to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment, and then be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Verse 7 deals with the nature of their sin. The phrase is: in like manner. In like manner, as Sodom and Gomorrah, they went after strange flesh. The sin that these angels committed is similar to the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, the sexual sin of going after strange flesh. Strange flesh means sexual union that is unnatural or contrary to nature. In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, the strange flesh was homosexuality. In the case of these angels, the strange flesh was female flesh. Instead of remaining in their usual state of residence, they invaded a new state of residence of alien flesh to commit gross sexual immorality. So Sodom and Gomorrah and these angels have one thing in common; they are guilty of sexual sins. In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, it was homosexuality; in the case of these angels, it was intermarrying into the human sphere.

By comparing the Genesis passage with the passages in IIPeter and Jude, it is clear that these were angels who intermarried with human woman, and not simply Sethites who intermarried with Cainites.

d. Summary

To summarize the origin of demons: all demons have the same initial origin in that they fell with Satan. However, sometime after that fall, some of Satan's fallen angels married human woman for the purpose of trying to corrupt the Seed of the woman in order to thwart the first messianic prophecy of Genesis 3:15. These particular angels are now permanently confined in Tartarus. The others are free, but periodically many of them are temporarily confind in the abyss before eventually being released to roam free again. The difference is between receiving a temporary sentence in jail as over against a life sentence. Eventually, of course, all demons will be eternally confined to the Lake of Fire following the Great White Throne Judgment.

Reference: Transcript MBS-082 Demonology: The Doctrine of Fallen Angels- Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Founder of Ariel Ministries

Other accompaniment references for this work by A. Fruchtenbaum:

Transcript mbs-073 Angelology: The Doctrine of Elect Angels

[None]

Another question is, "Why did Satan have some of his fallen angels intermarry with human woman? Why bother?" The reason can be understood by investigating the greater context of Genesis. Three chapters earlier, the first messianic prophecy is recorded (Gen. 3:15). This prophecy declared that the Messiah would be born of the Seed of the woman, and this Seed would crush the head of Satan. What was happening in Genesis 6:1-4 was a satanic attempt to corrupt the Seed of the woman by having some of his angels take on human form, again, angels always appear as young males when they take on human form, and intermarry with human kind to try to corrupt the Seed. Thus, events of Genesis 6:1-4 were a satanic attempt to nullify the prophecy of Genesis 3:15.

That makes perfect sense.

They had extra capabilities, both mentally and physically, though they may not have been any larger than normal human beings.

I wonder if this holds any relevance to what Jesus predicted in Matthew 24:37-39.

It seems people are looking for giants to be some sort of sign but even Jesus never said "giants". I believe it's because Jesus knew that the union that happened before Noah's flood would be far more hidden in end times.

More in the form of possession.

[Guest Christopher_John]

They had extra capabilities, both mentally and physically, though they may not have been any larger than normal human beings.

I wonder if this holds any relevance to what Jesus predicted in Matthew 24:37-39.

It seems people are looking for giants to be some sort of sign but even Jesus never said "giants". I believe it's because Jesus knew that the union that happened before Noah's flood would be far more hidden in end times.

More in the form of possession.

That's an interesting point None.

What adds even greater support, during Jesus' ministry we see alot of demonic possesion activity or at least an increase of it during His ministry. The fact that Jesus encountered demons and also communicated with them Mark 5:1-19 and Luke 4:31-36 demonstrates that there is a belief requirement in them for us as Christians, part of Jesus' inter-actions with these demons demonstrated His Messiaship. How this is pertinent, even Peter was temporarily possesed by Satan himself to try and thwart the death of Jesus at the cross Mathew 16:21-23. Here again we see an example of demonic or Satanic influence or posession to try and interfere with God's work to bring Salvation to mankind.

If Satan could succeed at preventing Christ's sacrifice, mankind would have no means of Salvation and Satan would eventually make the earth a permanent abode by which he would reign supreme over humanity or at least that seems to be his intention. So we have two sound biblical doctrines of Satanic or demonic intereference with God's work, first an attempt to corrupt the bloodline of the Messiah in Genesis 6, second; to interfere with God's sacrificial offering of Salvation to mankind in Mathew 16: 21-23.

Ultimately Christ defeated the acts of the fallen angels and are now subject to him under His full authority, this explains the lack or decrease in demonic activity following His death and Resurrection. Some are reserved unto judgment, some reserved for the Tribulation to torment mankind Revelation Chapter 9

Peace

CJ

[None]

They had extra capabilities, both mentally and physically, though they may not have been any larger than normal human beings.

I wonder if this holds any relevance to what Jesus predicted in Matthew 24:37-39.

It seems people are looking for giants to be some sort of sign but even Jesus never said "giants". I believe it's because Jesus knew that the union that happened before Noah's flood would be far more hidden in end times.

More in the form of possession.

That's an interesting point None.

What adds even greater support, during Jesus' ministry we see alot of demonic possesion activity or at least an increase of it during His ministry. The fact that Jesus encountered demons and also communicated with them Mark 5:1-19 and Luke 4:31-36 demonstrates that there is a belief requirement in them for us as Christians, part of Jesus' inter-actions with these demons demonstrated His Messiaship. How this is pertinent, even Peter was temporarily possesed by Satan himself to try and thwart the death of Jesus at the cross Mathew 16:21-23. Here again we see an example of demonic or Satanic influence or posession to try and interfere with God's work to bring Salvation to mankind.

If Satan could succeed at preventing Christ's sacrifice, mankind would have no means of Salvation and Satan would eventually make the earth a permanent abode by which he would reign supreme over humanity or at least that seems to be his intention. So we have two sound biblical doctrines of Satanic or demonic intereference with God's work, first an attempt to corrupt the bloodline of the Messiah in Genesis 6, second; to interfere with God's sacrificial offering of Salvation to mankind in Mathew 16: 21-23.

Ultimately Christ defeated the acts of the fallen angels and are now subject to him under His full authority, this explains the lack or decrease in demonic activity following His death and Resurrection. Some are reserved unto judgment, some reserved for the Tribulation to torment mankind Revelation Chapter 9

Peace

CJ

Are you saying that demon possession isn't happening right now, during our time, but will come later?

There was an increase before the three years of Jesus' active ministry; wouldn't there be an increase before the Tribulation as well, and not simply during?

[other one]

According to Malachi Martin, demonic posession has risen dramatically. I think he died in 1998 or 99, and I have not read from any source I might trust to know for sure since then.

Sam

[None]

There have been many testimonies, even here in this very forum, of possessions and healings of possessions.