Guest LCPGUY Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 Greetings Trinity, If this is what you believe and cannot be disuaded, then I dub the "Heretic of the day". You pull verses "out of context", you "twist" the scriptures, you "add and subtract" from the scriptures. IOW, you don't know what you are talking about but seem intent on pushing this "false doctrine" upon everyone else. If you wish I CAN respond to each of your allegations, but I ALREADY have elsewhere, and will do it again FOR YOUR SAKE, if YOU ARE WILLING TO LISTEN AND LEARN. Blessings, Dad Ernie Ohhh Dad, here you go again with the name calling. Would you at least consider adding the statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted August 14, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted August 14, 2004 Greetings Trinity, And this has nothing to do with Our salvation, My Jesus came to save me. How often have I heard this? "Even the demons 'believe' AND SHUDDER." Have you investigated what the Gospel of Jesus Christ IS? Did you know that IT is the Power of God unto salvation? What do you think that means? Would you believe, that by the "knowledge" of the WHOLE Gospel, one is saved and sanctified and made righteous, AND protected from all the barbs of the enemy. Jesus declared: "Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD." Here is the FULL Gospel that SAVES YOU: 1) The birth of Jesus Christ 2) The life of Jesus Christ 3) The death of Jesus Christ 4) The resurrection of Jesus Christ 5) The coming again of Jesus Christ These last two in particular I will address with a question regarding these verses: 1 Cor 15:13-21 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. The "hope" we have in Christ is that BECAUSE HE AROSE, then WE TOO shall arise from our graves one day to EVER BE WITH THE LORD. Now HOW IMPORTANT is that? If this is NOT TRUE, then we are men most miserable. If you wish to believe some nutty fairy tale, then you should feel absolutely free to believe it, BUT IF YOU ARE WRONG (which you think you COULD be), THEN you should be fearful of these verses: Matthew 18:6-7 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! What is the Title of this thread? Did you or did you not DECLARE that you had EVIDENCES to positively PROVE the Pre-trib rapture position? In my mind, at least, you are declaring INFALLIBILITY. Then you go on to make this statement: I have been very open to you Views of the rapture and I respect them, please respect my views as I yours also. This statement could have been made by the Pope, a Buddhist, a liberal Muslim, a New Ager. Do you or do you not believe that you are entrusted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ? That you should fiercely protect it, and that you should NOT change it? If so, then I suggest that you address these issues, one by one to see if what you believe is the truth OR NOT. The responsibility for teaching "babes in Christ" is a very awesome responsibility and we are mandated to have "all our ducks in a row". I know of many who acknowledge Christ, but whose WORKS are going to be burnt up in the day of judgment because of FALSE doctrines, they themselves have taught. I do not declare infallibility for myself and I accept REBUKE and INSTRUCTION from those entrusted with the Word of God, who do not vary in their walk and have been taught personally by the Lord Himself and speak the truth with all gentleness and respect. Each of us is given a small responsibility to preserve the truth, and it is so wonderful when "two can walk together in agreement." If you feel I have maligned you, please report me to the moderators or to George. My only hope is that you study for yourself and not listen to the fairy tales of man regarding your walk with Christ. My humble apologies for ranting. I just CAN'T STAND that awful doctrine. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 14, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2004 I'll respond later. All I can say earnie is you are in direct violation of Matthew 7:1 right now. Also, the complete gospel has nothing to do with the hope of Christ comming again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 15, 2004 You have every right to hate it but um... im not to fawned of you belief either but im not going to hold that against you, becuase you have rights to you belief and its my right not to agree with you lol but I still don't get how salvation has to do with the rapture... but... anyhow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Another end-times obsession.... Oy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 Before I go into a responce, we need to understand that there are fruitful debates, and unfruitful debates. Generally, if an eschatology debate gets too heated, i will gladly step out because it is not an essential issue to our faith. Unfortunately a misrepresentation of the Gospel has been presented, thus it has moved from a non-essential debate to an essential debate. It is one I feel I must get involved in. It have moved from the area of grey into the area of black and white by invoking a certain belief in order to obtain Salvation. Now onto proving this belief wrong. Ernie, you should a gross misrepresentation of what the Gospel message is. We know from John 14:6 that Jesus is the only way to heaven. The salvation we need to find is within Jesus. To answer the scriptures you've brought forth: 1 Cor 15:13-21 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. Believing in a Pre-trib mindset doesn't mean you deny the ressurection of the dead. You know what...I'm going to stop here. Ernie, you're off your rocker on this one. I'm looking through it and I'm seing nothing but hate, malice, and legalism spew from your post. I wll pray that God demonstrates to you what a graceful lifestyle should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,173 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,902 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 Greetings Trinity, And this has nothing to do with Our salvation, My Jesus came to save me. How often have I heard this? "Even the demons 'believe' AND SHUDDER." Have you investigated what the Gospel of Jesus Christ IS? Did you know that IT is the Power of God unto salvation? What do you think that means? Would you believe, that by the "knowledge" of the WHOLE Gospel, one is saved and sanctified and made righteous, AND protected from all the barbs of the enemy. Jesus declared: "Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD." Here is the FULL Gospel that SAVES YOU: 1) The birth of Jesus Christ 2) The life of Jesus Christ 3) The death of Jesus Christ 4) The resurrection of Jesus Christ 5) The coming again of Jesus Christ These last two in particular I will address with a question regarding these verses: 1 Cor 15:13-21 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. The "hope" we have in Christ is that BECAUSE HE AROSE, then WE TOO shall arise from our graves one day to EVER BE WITH THE LORD. Now HOW IMPORTANT is that? If this is NOT TRUE, then we are men most miserable. If you wish to believe some nutty fairy tale, then you should feel absolutely free to believe it, BUT IF YOU ARE WRONG (which you think you COULD be), THEN you should be fearful of these verses: Matthew 18:6-7 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! What is the Title of this thread? Did you or did you not DECLARE that you had EVIDENCES to positively PROVE the Pre-trib rapture position? In my mind, at least, you are declaring INFALLIBILITY. Then you go on to make this statement: I have been very open to you Views of the rapture and I respect them, please respect my views as I yours also. This statement could have been made by the Pope, a Buddhist, a liberal Muslim, a New Ager. Do you or do you not believe that you are entrusted with the Gospel of Jesus Christ? That you should fiercely protect it, and that you should NOT change it? If so, then I suggest that you address these issues, one by one to see if what you believe is the truth OR NOT. The responsibility for teaching "babes in Christ" is a very awesome responsibility and we are mandated to have "all our ducks in a row". I know of many who acknowledge Christ, but whose WORKS are going to be burnt up in the day of judgment because of FALSE doctrines, they themselves have taught. I do not declare infallibility for myself and I accept REBUKE and INSTRUCTION from those entrusted with the Word of God, who do not vary in their walk and have been taught personally by the Lord Himself and speak the truth with all gentleness and respect. Each of us is given a small responsibility to preserve the truth, and it is so wonderful when "two can walk together in agreement." If you feel I have maligned you, please report me to the moderators or to George. My only hope is that you study for yourself and not listen to the fairy tales of man regarding your walk with Christ. My humble apologies for ranting. I just CAN'T STAND that awful doctrine. Blessings, Dad Ernie DadEarnie, I read this post several times and I don't seem to understand where this post covers when the reserection/rapture happens. There will be some who are not dead but just changed in an instant. Can you help me understand how your post defines when this happens? SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,173 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,902 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 Greetings Trinity, If this is what you believe and cannot be disuaded, then I dub the "Heretic of the day". You pull verses "out of context", you "twist" the scriptures, you "add and subtract" from the scriptures. IOW, you don't know what you are talking about but seem intent on pushing this "false doctrine" upon everyone else. If you wish I CAN respond to each of your allegations, but I ALREADY have elsewhere, and will do it again FOR YOUR SAKE, if YOU ARE WILLING TO LISTEN AND LEARN. Blessings, Dad Ernie Ohhh Dad, here you go again with the name calling. Would you at least consider adding the statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 I'm not a pre-tribber myself but I'm sure not gonna complain if I turn out to be wrong; especially if it happens in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted August 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2004 being that no one knows the day or the hour of the rapture, the mid and post trib beliefs are not right....... for if you have a mid trib, you would be able to pin point the time frame.... if you was post trib, you would be able to also..... the rapture, is the resurection of those that are in Christ.... those that died while in Christ, and those that are alive in Christ will follow shortly after...... this will give all that is required to have the world come together under a single government..... if we dont have such an event as all those in Christ departing in a blink of an eye, there wont be a time when the people of the world feel they need to come together....... some time during this period, there will be a covenent made with many for 7 years...... and 3.5 of them will be in peace..... that is until the temple is defiled....... by the way, the building that was once thought to be on the grounds that the temple is suppose to be on..... is actually out of the way for the temple, it will not interfer with the building of the temple...... those that are left behind from the rapture, will be in a survival mode, physical survival mode...... they will be trying to justify anything to survive.... those that are strong and remains strong thru the tribulation will probably not survive the physical side of the trib...... there will be some taking the mark so that they can "feed their families"...... they will justify it for that reason..... there will be others taking the mark trying to justify it for other reasons also...... those that have not accepted Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and staying faithful to the Lord will be left here on this earth to have to go thru the trib...... when the true followers are raptured up, they will be going before the Judgement seat of Christ, receiving their due rewards...... and then they will be clothed in the cloths of rightousness and then on to the wedding feast..... which is during the trib period..... after the Trib, then we have the battle of Armagedon.... and then after that, satan is bound for 1000 years.... and those that went up in the rapture, will be ruling with Christ for that 1000 years..... and then the battle of gog and magog.... after that, will be the second resurection ( those that did not have Christ ) and then the Great White Throne Judgement...... a person has to remember that the signs of the times point to the end days, not to the rapture........ the rapture will happen about 7 years prior to the battle of armagedon begins and the defeat of satan....... as a side note.......... I believe that all the prophecies that need to be fulfilled prior to the rapture have already taken place...... the propecies that are left, can either take place before or after the rapture, with some of them having to take place after..... the architecs already have the plans ready for the temple.... the material is already set for the building to start.... there is already food stored awa y for the Children of Israel..... lots and lots.... the mount of olives has a fault line thru it that could separate at just about anytime,... the place known as armagedon, has a massive oil reserve under it and it belongs to WHO???? Israel..... we are and have been seeing earth quakes in many places that have never seen earth quakes before..... we are seeing war, upon war, upon war..... all this will pass...... all we have to do now is be watchful.... and keep our lamps fulll of oil.... something that we all have to keep in mind, the first reserrection is for only those that are faithful to the Lord, ones that have been remaining blameless...... those that are killed during the Tribulation will be those that are seen under the alter..... the second resurrection is for those that have not been faithful to the Lord...... the judgement seat of Christ is for the believers, to receive their rewards..... the great white throne judgement is for the non-followers, those that have rejected Christ, those that did not remain faithful..... and those will receive their due rewards .....which is the lake of fire..... by the way........ there are some that say that there will be no such thing as the rapture, for the word rapture does not show up in scripture...... well, the word Trinity dont show up anywhere either..... and neither does Grandfather or Grandmother.... but we know for a fact that there are grand mothers and grand fathers....... the concept of a grandfather is in scripture, as is trinity as well as rapture........ mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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