The Biblical gift of tongues

[Openly Curious]

Jude vs.17-25 But beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus; vs. 18) How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. vs. 19) These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. vs. 20) But ye beloved, building "UP" yourselves on your "MOST" "HOLY FAITH" PRAYING" in the "HOLY GHOST". vs. 21) Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. vs. 22) And of some have compassion, making a difference: vs. 23) And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. vs. 24) Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. vs. 25) To the only wise God our Saviour , be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

[nebula]

Now some have suggested that this version of tongues, predates 1901 and asked how we know, it wasn't around before 1901?

Well we know it wasn't because not one word was ever written about it, prior to 1901.

Tongues Throughout Church History

Neb this man give no citings (like books or page) just a bunch of names and if He did the study why not book or volume and page... curious this will take some digging... Love Steven

Did you click on the link?

[Guest]

Hello everyone

I apologize for not answering these questions sooner;

When this thread was moved, it stopped sending me emails, to let me know, when someone responded.

Dear Brother At The Top Of The Page Click On Watch Topic And Then Click On The Next Pop Up Screen And You'll Start Getting Your Messages Again

[Botz]

It doesn't usually stop there...those that believe this type of personal tongue is not the same as evidenced in the Bible, usually believe everything else that was a spiritual gift, also disappeared with the death of the Apostles, or with the completing of the Scriptures, and to my mind have a rather dry approach to the Christian life, with everything supposedly based on the Word (according to their interpretation)...admittedly there is often a stronger emphasis on character, which I admire and cherish.

Cessationist focus on the verse you have cited and it is a good study to examine if when... The latter letters of Paul the eventual advice to His beloved Timothy, the tearing out of eyes and giving to Paul whom they loved, etc.

(But) more importantly the leading of this understanding

John 20:27-29

27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

NKJV

if I were to draw a conclusion to this statement of our Lord it would be this- He seem to be indicating a direction of intent... that He desires a people that will believe solely upon His Word alone and in that believing it will be evidence enough to place their whole entire weight as to being upon it. After all the faith He desires is the one who does not recognize the property of water that causes us to sink! It is further supported by Peter near His finish

1 Peter 1:8-9

8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith - the salvation of your souls.

NKJV

It is such a haunting thing to hear the Words of Peter's write- knowing all that He witnessed (empirical speaking) and now with the power of The Holy Spirit and his own testimony of the reality they were to believe upon The Word and The drawing of God!

Why does Peter not utilize miracles and sign and wonders here? It is a good examination to read the last written Words of Peter and The Holy Spirit that warn us of total destruction ot the empirical evidence we have been brought forth in understanding yet are taught by Christ that it is a small beginning which we so largely rely upon! I am of the opinion that God is asking us to turn loose totally of the created things and grasp using the tool of faith that which we have no concept of yet. Just as we first (birth) so shall the last be come (born again) into a world where sin has never been nor even considered.... this brings tears of hope that this would come quickly by His return...

1 John 3:2-3

2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

NKJV

and we know this purity is brought forth by fire

1 Peter 1:7

7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

NKJV

and we know the fire burns all created empirical stuff... and if we rely on that to believe in Christ what shall we be if it is all removed?

1 Peter 1:23-25

23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because

"All flesh is as grass,

And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.

The grass withers,

And its flower falls away,

25 But the word of the Lord endures forever."

Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

NKJV

There is one other danger which the Lord speaks of... in the signs and wonders department

2 Thess 2:9-12

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

NKJV

Knowing Christ our shepherd and His proven love for us and has told us all things- He seems to be leading us away from reliance of signs and wonders as to determine if He is in something or not. I am not saying miracles do not happen for I have witnessed them in my own life as you also I am sure... but I do not demand to see His hand at work in all that I ask of Him... and I examine all things by the fruit of their existence according to the Word He has formed us with in these last days.

Love Steven

Hello Steven...glad you got my sense of humour!

I find the way you are trying to link Scriptures to give some weight to the idea that in these times it is somehow more biblical or more honouring to G-d that His body of Believers functions without spiritual gifts, hard to follow and hard to grasp...the fact is the Church does not seek to manufacture them or cling on to something that was made redundant with the demise of the last Apostle or the final compilation of the Scriptures...they operate because they follow naturally in receiving the Holy Spirit, and He equips the Saints.

Now a person can choose to believe they are not for today, deny every testimony that abounds, focus on the weird and wacky, and even think that Paul wasted his time devoting such space in his letters trying to establish the need for a modicum of wisdom in using some of the gifts...that's fine, but it certainly isn't honouring to G-d, nor is it a help in ministering to the Body and encouraging others to be bold in G-d and present the L-rd and the Gospel in the power of the Spirit. I would go so far as to say that those that choose this path are not presenting the full Gospel and display a certain lack of faith, preferring to preserve traditional teaching than listen to what the Spirit says about these things.

I have known many people that were once in this camp of denial/unbelief...who have been remarkably touched by G-d and moved on into all that He has made available...I don't think I have ever met more than one or two that have gone the other way, and those that I have met have not just gone on to disbelieve in spiritual gifts, but have lost their way and lost their faith for the moment.

Living in the West, we can develop a fairly comfortable life-style, where we don't need, and don't see the need for many of the gifts and can happily read our expensive bibles in peaceful surroundings....but go to Africa, India, the Pacific Islands etc and if you don't cast out demons in the name of Jesus or lay hands on the sick for healing they will in may cases continue to go to the local witch-doctor, or maintain their false-religious beliefs as the G-d you represent lacks any power. In these places, the miraculous nature of G-ds power is often the dinner gong to salvation. In the West we do not see a fraction of the mighty works of G-d that they see in these places because of unbelief....and the Spirit, just like the L-rd cannot operate in the realm of the miraculous when an atmosphere of denial is evident...and continues to be taught and encouraged as if it is more scriptural!

Mark 6:5And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6And He wondered at their unbelief.

Also moving in the gifts is exciting...you can't tell me that when you read the accounts in Acts and the early Church, you don't long to see the Church operating in the same dimension...my spirit rises up the whole time when I read such things as:-

Acts:16 It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling. 17Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation. 18She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her! And it came out at that very moment.

Acts 3:6 But Peter said, I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarenewalk! 7And seizing him by the right hand, he raised him up; and immediately his feet and his ankles were strengthened. 8With a leap he stood upright and began to walk; and he entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God.

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people

They had no more need of the Holy Spirit and the POWER of the Holy Spirit way back then, than we do now...Lawlessness abounds with strange teachings and false religions springing up all over the place as the god of this world seeks to hold back the Day of Judgment and prove G-ds words to be false.

The Scriptures should not be used like a smorgasbord from which we take just the things we fancy, but our desire should be for obedience and faith, because we want to be most effective in reaching the lost, and this means embracing everything G-d offers through the Holy Spirit, and being empowered from above...I don't see the Scriptures any where trying to say that the function of the Holy Spirit has changed...because He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow...it is only people who try to smother the flames.

I know I have not replied directly to what you have written, but have rather challenged the essence of what I felt your post contained, and I hope you can see where I am coming from, and why I believe it is vital in these times that we are obedient to the Holy Spirit. I leave you and others with this heart-felt testimony from the beloved Paul with emphasis on what fully preaching the gospel is all about. Prayerfully. Botz

Romans 15:17 Therefore in Christ Jesus I have found reason for boasting in things pertaining to God. 18For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed, 19in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

[enoob57]

Now some have suggested that this version of tongues, predates 1901 and asked how we know, it wasn't around before 1901?

Well we know it wasn't because not one word was ever written about it, prior to 1901.

Tongues Throughout Church History

Neb this man give no citings (like books or page) just a bunch of names and if He did the study why not book or volume and page... curious this will take some digging... Love Steven

Did you click on the link?

yes I am researching

[Axxman]

Sadly, no one has come forward and explained just where this gift "disappeared" to from the close of the Apostolic age until Agnes Ozman began to speak in other languages at Charles Parham's Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1901.

'

Hey Chief...I just wanted to point out that this isn't the first time this convo has run a horse around the racetrack. There is clear evidence that tongues did in fact disappear from existence just as scripture claimed it would, and that evidence has been presented at length in past discussions. Unfortunately, like many topics around here, compelling evidence and facts are often disregarded for anecdotal emotional 'personal' experience...or even second-hand experience in many cases.

You could have a Master's Degree on the subject and you'll still get people to argue with you because their Cousin Leroy speaks in tongues and he's one of the most God-fearing humble people you'll ever meet.

[RebekahDavid]

Blessings axe,

unless you believe the perfect has come (Jesus and the last i knew we are still awaiting His return) then you are not siting the scripture correctly. again show me where in scripture it say it will pass away once the apostles do.

there are many who hold phd's in theology who do not even believe in the fundamental basic Christian beliefs about the Bible being God breathed and yet even people like cousin Leroy can.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

[Guest man]

There is clear evidence that tongues did in fact disappear from existence just as scripture claimed it would,

Could you post that scripture please?

[nebula]

How come no one claims knowledge has passed away, or should pass away?

[~candice~]

Sadly, no one has come forward and explained just where this gift "disappeared" to from the close of the Apostolic age until Agnes Ozman began to speak in other languages at Charles Parham's Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas in 1901.

'

Hey Chief...I just wanted to point out that this isn't the first time this convo has run a horse around the racetrack. There is clear evidence that tongues did in fact disappear from existence just as scripture claimed it would, and that evidence has been presented at length in past discussions. Unfortunately, like many topics around here, compelling evidence and facts are often disregarded for anecdotal emotional 'personal' experience...or even second-hand experience in many cases.

You could have a Master's Degree on the subject and you'll still get people to argue with you because their Cousin Leroy speaks in tongues and he's one of the most God-fearing humble people you'll ever meet.

What are you going to do with the evidence Neb gave?

لإAll that is required is one counter example, and your theory that tongues have passed away is disproven. I would also note that you cannot prove that something has passed away without knowledge of everything, how would you know that it was not, for example, in operation in Africa but not reported to us? It's an unprovable assertion that is easily refuted with a single example, and Neb gave many.