josephine tomczuk Posted October 20, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 169 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/04/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 20, 2010 nuff said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted October 20, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,271 Content Per Day: 4.95 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted October 20, 2010 How is atheism religious? While there isn't a hard and fast definition of religion, all have certain characteristics, one of which is a belief in the supernatural, and somehow be able to tie adherents together and to this supernatural component. The way atheism is used on this thread makes them synonymous with those adhering to philosophical naturalism - a disbelief in the supernatural. As religion requires some supernatural component and atheism (as used on this thread) denies the supernatural by definition, how is it that atheism is religious? They worship themselves as their own god. Religion: 1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. See, religion is not just about a supernatural being or have a supernatural component as you say. Atheists are bound together by their belief in the power of themselves and their thought ability to live a good and just life, without the need to judge themselves as being sinners, needing salvation and a savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesong Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 How is atheism religious? While there isn't a hard and fast definition of religion, all have certain characteristics, one of which is a belief in the supernatural, and somehow be able to tie adherents together and to this supernatural component. The way atheism is used on this thread makes them synonymous with those adhering to philosophical naturalism - a disbelief in the supernatural. As religion requires some supernatural component and atheism (as used on this thread) denies the supernatural by definition, how is it that atheism is religious? They worship themselves as their own god. Religion: 1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith. See, religion is not just about a supernatural being or have a supernatural component as you say. Atheists are bound together by their belief in the power of themselves and their thought ability to live a good and just life, without the need to judge themselves as being sinners, needing salvation and a savior. I respectfully disagree. If atheism is a religion, then everybody is religious and "being religious" loses its differentiating power. Theoretically, we should also be invited to ecumenical meetings and our organizations should also be exempt from taxation. I also do not think we worship ourselves. We do not worship anything, including ourselves. I also think we can do good things, which IMHO is even more admirable considering that we do not expect any sort of reward. For instance, in Italy the percentage of atheists in prison is much lower than the average of atheists in the population, which indicates that, at least in Italy, atheists commit less immoral acts, on average (or they are so clever that they do not get caught ) I also think we are pretty humble human beings. When I was a Christian I really though that I and my fellows humans were very special in the eyes of God, that He had a plan for us and that we are His most important creation. Now I believe that we are not so important; I believe we are just one product of evolution, with a very limited life span and living in a quite average part of the universe. I know that this might sound bleak (I was also a Christian in the past), but one of the steps of my apostasy was facilitated by removing from my thoughts all things that I wished for (eternal life, rejoining my lost friends and parents, having a loving Father that looks after me and my family, etc.). We, as humans, have a strong tendency to believe things that we like. Once we remove our wishes, we are just left with the bleak facts, I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 26, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 26, 2010 I also think we are pretty humble human beings. When I was a Christian I really though that I and my fellows humans were very special in the eyes of God, that He had a plan for us and that we are His most important creation. Now I believe that we are not so important; I believe we are just one product of evolution, with a very limited life span and living in a quite average part of the universe. I know that this might sound bleak (I was also a Christian in the past), but one of the steps of my apostasy was facilitated by removing from my thoughts all things that I wished for (eternal life, rejoining my lost friends and parents, having a loving Father that looks after me and my family, etc.). We, as humans, have a strong tendency to believe things that we like. Once we remove our wishes, we are just left with the bleak facts, I am afraid. YOU may have been left with just bleak facts but true Christians are happy with their faith and their future. True Christianity is not about what WE want but, rather, about the wants of our Creator. This paragraph... "Now I believe that we are not so important; I believe we are just one product of evolution, with a very limited life span and living in a quite average part of the universe. " which denies the Messiah, denies the Bible and denies God as the Creator........is straight from satan himself. I will pray for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest treesong Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 I also think we are pretty humble human beings. When I was a Christian I really though that I and my fellows humans were very special in the eyes of God, that He had a plan for us and that we are His most important creation. Now I believe that we are not so important; I believe we are just one product of evolution, with a very limited life span and living in a quite average part of the universe. I know that this might sound bleak (I was also a Christian in the past), but one of the steps of my apostasy was facilitated by removing from my thoughts all things that I wished for (eternal life, rejoining my lost friends and parents, having a loving Father that looks after me and my family, etc.). We, as humans, have a strong tendency to believe things that we like. Once we remove our wishes, we are just left with the bleak facts, I am afraid. YOU may have been left with just bleak facts but true Christians are happy with their faith and their future. True Christianity is not about what WE want but, rather, about the wants of our Creator. This paragraph... "Now I believe that we are not so important; I believe we are just one product of evolution, with a very limited life span and living in a quite average part of the universe. " which denies the Messiah, denies the Bible and denies God as the Creator........is straight from satan himself. I will pray for you. I am sorry MorningGlory, I just wanted to stress the fact that we are humble people. Maybe I chose the wrong words.... I was also a Christian, so I understand your feelings very well. But why are you showing the Israeli flag then? Do not understand me wrong, I love the people of Israel (I have many friends there) and I am also active in several organizations that fight antisemitism. I think that Israel is a very important bastion against Islamic fundamentalism. But it is a fact that they also deny your Messiah....And I would not call their beliefs coming straight from satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josephine tomczuk Posted October 27, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 169 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/04/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2010 treesong, my heart is heavy when i read your words. you have no hope and you seem to be perfectly content with having no hope. you have lost your faith in God, which means you have placed it somewhere else. you say that you have no faith anymore, but you must believe in something. and you do. you believe that there is no God. you believe against God. and you have perfected this faith for yourself and justified it so well that you cannot accept our words. as a Christian, how much did you pray? i'm not talking about mass, or rosaries or talking to saints. how much did you pray your own words to God Himself? i will ask you another question just to clarify for myself so that i can understand you better. were you ever born again? if you were, you would know what i mean by that. Jesus said that unless we are born of water and spirit, we cannot enter the Kingdom of God. not doing so would greatly affect the impact of your prayer life. however, God hears. if you would cry out to Him right now and ask Him to show Himself to you, He would. for He says: draw near to God and He will draw near to you. it has to be your choice though, He will not force you. He loves you so much. Then you will know the answer to the question that this post is addressing. bless you:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south Posted October 27, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 378 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/01/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/06/1967 Share Posted October 27, 2010 First of all, when i said "people" as i said before, I was speaking generally, I was not saying "people of this forum" I don't want to be rude, but I find that statement very funny. Who else do you think will read your post except the people in this forum? Blessings...South Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south Posted October 27, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 378 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 2 Joined: 02/01/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/06/1967 Share Posted October 27, 2010 As a Christian, I get frustrated when I see so many other Christians make fools out of themselves by demonstrating a lack of understanding of simple definitions of words. One of the most commonly misused word is atheism. I've heard a lot of Christians recently attacking atheism by completely misrepresenting its definition. I hear things all the time such as, "Atheism is a religion!" "Atheism requires a leap of faith!" And, the most frustrating of all, "Atheists believe that billions of years ago, there was nothing, then, nothing happened, and then there was something, and for no reason at all, something ordered itself, and then there was life." So, is atheism a religion? Do atheists believe all that? Lets start with the root of the word. the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 .... But why are you showing the Israeli flag then? Do not understand me wrong, I love the people of Israel (I have many friends there) and I am also active in several organizations that fight antisemitism. I think that Israel is a very important bastion against Islamic fundamentalism. But it is a fact that they also deny your Messiah....And I would not call their beliefs coming straight from satan..... Seriously! Because Our Messiah Says To, You See And He Loves Israel And So Do We, You See You See I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. Isaiah 62:6-7 And We Stand With Them Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. Isaiah 40:1 Because We Know Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16 Their KING And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. John 19:19 My LORD And My God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebwly Posted October 27, 2010 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 15 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2010 Why are we even debating this topic? Atheists don't even exist. The bible does not acknowledge atheism nor agnosticism, this is what the scripture says: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools...2 Romans 1. So brothers and sisters, lets not debate on this. Men won't come to God because you give them a good logical argument or you try to prove to them God exists. men only get saved once they understand that they are under the wrath of God, and the gravity of their sin against a holy god leads them to true, genuine repentance and they fall upon the cross of Jesus Christ. Peace and Grace be with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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