Can Omniscience and free will coexist?

[doubting_tommy]

God does not "plan" anyone's everything. He knows in advance what will happen. He didn't cause your parents to have sex so that you could be conceived, but He knew before the beginning of time that they would and therefore has a plan. But that plan is flexible and depends on the decisions that you make. And of course, He already knows what your choices will be. He will try and influence you towards Christ, but you have the final say on whether you choose Him or yourself. After so long, He will stop trying to lead you and will turn you over to your own depraved human condition. Of course, He already knows the choice you will make, but He tries none the less. That's free will.

(I don't mean you specifically d_t.)

Thanks for the reply. I suppose I have to be consistent and agree with you here since I don't believe omniscience and free will contradict each other. Maybe part of the problem from my perspective is that it's going to be impossible to an extent to imagine what it is like to be omniscient.

[OneLight]

I have another question on free will, if anyone would be kind enough to give me their perspective on it.

Assuming we have free will, then it was an exercise of free will which ensured (to some extent) that your parents conceived you. I.e., if your parents had not made the decision to have a baby, you would not have been born. Obviously other factors played a part too, but this is part of it.

If this is the case, to what extent did God 'plan' or intend that you were born. If your life is part of God's plan and always has been, did your parents really have free will in choosing to have a baby? Could they have chosen otherwise?

You are asking the wrong crowd. Try asking God how He planned everything that was, is and will be.

Isaiah 55:8-9

[Fez]

Tommy, it's a bit like this.

The history of your future is known by God, and has been since the beginning.

God knows exactly how your life is going to pan out. The choice of how it does is up to you.

He allows you to make those choices. Such as, you know He is God, you have heard the Good Word. Do you choose to accept Him as your Lord and Saviour? That's free will. And He already knows what your choice was when He first created everything.

When you make wrong choices does it hurt Him because He loves you? Of course it does.

And if, during your life, you pray to Him for something, He has already granted it before you prayed, or said no, or said wait.

This is where Onelight's quote of scripture applies as well....

[Guest]

The typical argument for determinism goes something like this: When you make a decision at time T, your decision is determined/constrained by the laws of nature....

Laws (?) Of Nature

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. John 16:7-11

Will Have No Standing In That Day Of Judgement

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

So Wiggle Here Or Waggle There

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resister the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. James 4:6-10

A Choice Will Be Made

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Armories, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Joshua 24:15

You See?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe

[Rick-Parker]

Thanks for the reply. I suppose I have to be consistent and agree with you here since I don't believe omniscience and free will contradict each other. Maybe part of the problem from my perspective is that it's going to be impossible to an extent to imagine what it is like to be omniscient.

I think that it is for us all, d_t. We (the Church) won't be able to understand it until we are with the Lord. Then we will know and understand everything. Remember, we are made in His image.

[nChrist]

This whole question and discussion can be boiled down to something very simple. Almighty God is the Absolute and Unquestioned Sovereign Ruler of the Universe. His Holy Names are many and He has Absolute Power to do anything that He wants to. So, now we have man, and what is man's relationship with God - keeping in mind that God could easily force and command anything? Does He - NO! Man is responsible to God at the end whether he or she wants to be or not, but man has free will to choose throughout this short life.

God wants man to love and obey Him, and that should be obvious. He could force obedience with a whisper, but He doesn't. He could have created pre-programmed robot-like creatures that all loved and obeyed Him, but He didn't. Why? - He wanted man to love and obey Him by FREE WILL. This goes to the question about why God created man in the first place - answer - His Glory. Forced love and obedience is nothing for the Glory of God. On the other side of the coin, love and obedience by choice of free will does Glorify God.

It should be more than obvious that man can and has rejected God and disobeyed Him from the very beginning, so it is more than obvious that mankind has free will to choose. Some of mankind eventually turns to God, accepts God, Loves God, and Glorifies God with his or her obedience and love. Obedience and love by choice is the only thing that counts with God. Great hosts of men never made peace with God in this short life, and they died in their sins, and it's obvious that God allowed them to reject Him. In fact, He has even allowed many to mock and blaspheme Him. The Almighty God would not have to put up with any of this unless it was His choice and design to give mankind FREE WILL.

God would also love for all men to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, but that must be a matter of choice - FREE WILL. Again, God could force this but hasn't. God has endured countless sins against Him and didn't have to allow a single one. He didn't - why? - Man's choice - FREE WILL. In the end, all men will be held accountable by God for what they do or don't do in this short life. Those who rejected Him and failed to make peace with Him will be judged for Eternal Condemnation at the Great White Throne Judgment. It was not God's desire for those great hosts of people to end their lives in sin without accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. What greater Love could God show than to give His Son on the Cross? On top of everything else, Salvation is a gift from God for simple belief in what Jesus Christ did on the cross. It's amazing that so many not only rejected God's gift, but they mocked and blasphemed God many times in their sins and disobedience. What else do you need to know about FREE WILL, other than semantics games? Plain and Simple - YOU CHOOSE. Forget about all the games of "what if's". All of the semantics being place in this extremely simple question are SILLY.

In the end at the Great White Throne Judgment, there won't be any semantics games and no excuses. It's really just this simple.

[nChrist]

This whole question and discussion can be boiled down to something very simple. Almighty God is the Absolute and Unquestioned Sovereign Ruler of the Universe. His Holy Names are many and He has Absolute Power to do anything that He wants to. So, now we have man, and what is man's relationship with God - keeping in mind that God could easily force and command anything? Does He - NO! Man is responsible to God at the end whether he or she wants to be or not, but man has free will to choose throughout this short life.

God wants man to love and obey Him, and that should be obvious. He could force obedience with a whisper, but He doesn't. He could have created pre-programmed robot-like creatures that all loved and obeyed Him, but He didn't. Why? - He wanted man to love and obey Him by FREE WILL. This goes to the question about why God created man in the first place - answer - His Glory. Forced love and obedience is nothing for the Glory of God. On the other side of the coin, love and obedience by choice of free will does Glorify God.

It should be more than obvious that man can and has rejected God and disobeyed Him from the very beginning, so it is more than obvious that mankind has free will to choose. Some of mankind eventually turns to God, accepts God, Loves God, and Glorifies God with his or her obedience and love. Obedience and love by choice is the only thing that counts with God. Great hosts of men never made peace with God in this short life, and they died in their sins, and it's obvious that God allowed them to reject Him. In fact, He has even allowed many to mock and blaspheme Him. The Almighty God would not have to put up with any of this unless it was His choice and design to give mankind FREE WILL.

God would also love for all men to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, but that must be a matter of choice - FREE WILL. Again, God could force this but hasn't. God has endured countless sins against Him and didn't have to allow a single one. He didn't - why? - Man's choice - FREE WILL. In the end, all men will be held accountable by God for what they do or don't do in this short life. Those who rejected Him and failed to make peace with Him will be judged for Eternal Condemnation at the Great White Throne Judgment. It was not God's desire for those great hosts of people to end their lives in sin without accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. What greater Love could God show than to give His Son on the Cross? On top of everything else, Salvation is a gift from God for simple belief in what Jesus Christ did on the cross. It's amazing that so many not only rejected God's gift, but they mocked and blasphemed God many times in their sins and disobedience. What else do you need to know about FREE WILL, other than semantics games? Plain and Simple - YOU CHOOSE. Forget about all the games of "what if's". All of the semantics being place in this extremely simple question are SILLY.

In the end at the Great White Throne Judgment, there won't be any semantics games and no excuses. It's really just this simple.

Sorry but it is not that simple. If it were, everybody would be a Christian.

Fair enough with the free will. But will the saved ones still have free will in Heaven? I do not see how they will not sin if

they still have it, and if they will not have it, they will be robots, as you said.

I am not sure that the close presence of God will suffice, as Adam and Eve have demonstrated. Is it theoretically

possible to have another fall, then? If two persons managed to cause a fall by exercising their free will, how about several millions?

Sorry for my questions, but I am a seeker in search for answers that could allow me to embrace Christianity.

It is this simple - people have free will - so some will accept and some will reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Ref. the free will in heaven, that's already been answered in this thread in a detailed post.

[Guest]

..... Sorry for my questions, but I am a seeker in search for answers that could allow me to embrace Christianity....

Embrace Christ

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29

Or Not

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:13:15

See?

Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:16:17

No?

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Believe And Be Blessed Beloved

Love, Joe