MorningGlory Posted November 7, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2010 We are saved by His grace alone, Carlos. YOU have never saved a single soul and you never will. You need to understand that fact first and foremost. That being said, I don't see Americans wanting to move to a third world country which is predominantly Catholic. These people are NOT savages running around in a jungle; they are modern thinking, western Christians. I'm sure you know this if you are from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 And no...for various reasons I do not believe it is God's will for me to join up with a typical Sunday church in a building. Reasons that I am open to discussing more but not on this thread. I need to reach the lost. Unbelievers who have become Christians through me are about the only persons who have ever, and I mean ever, changed their thinking about something I was sharing with them. Looking back I cannot think of a single, solitary Christian who has EVER changed their mind about anything that I have shared with them no matter how based in the Word and truthful what I was sharing was. I don't know why that is but that is the way it is. Some of that may involve my presentation if you will but a lot of it too is a general hardness of heart and dullness of hearing among the Christians I think. I need to focus my attention on new one's that might become Christians through me and teach them from the ground up. A fresh biblical teaching of what the Body is meant to be and pray that the Lord would move upon some to join me in implementing His will for us as a Body. Whether here or in Chile where I hope to move that seems to be what I am to be about. Messiah Complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted November 7, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Good morning Dave! I'm going to be quite honest brother. I would want nothing less! The above alarms me. Excuse me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you don't like the Church the way it is structered and organized and that you seek a new way and a new biblical teaching. Well...kinda Dave. Actually, though I may speak in the first person oftentimes about what I like or don't like the actual fact of the matter is that the Lord wants the Body to be a certain way. That way is clearly laid out in the Word. I read the Word and I see one thing regarding what fellowship is and what we ought as a Body to be about. I look at the practice of Church today and I see something completely different. I just want what is in the Word Dave. For the greater glory of God so that I can use my gifts more freely, so that one's will get saved more readily, and so that Jesus will manifest His living Presence through the Body in ways rarely seen today (at least in North America). It is not a matter of solely my liking or not liking something Dave. Sorry if that is the way I have come across. My like or dislike of something doesn't matter. It's what God likes or dislikes, it is His will that matters. That's all I want. To the degree that Church leaders and the practice of Church falls short of that...well...you can rightly say I don't like that but it's because He doesn't like that either. The Bible is quite clear in what it says we ought to be about. We are to lay down our lives for each other. Be involved in each other's lives and allow others into our lives. All out involvement. Not the kind so often found in Sunday Churches. Church is to be participatory. Spirit led not leader led respecting it's normal meetings. Women are to wear head coverings. Multiplicity of elders who are not called Pastors by the way. No head honcho Pastors over Churches. Shared leadership among co-equal in authority elders who have learned to work in unity and love. There's is lots and lots more Dave. All there in black and white for anyone who has ears to hear and eyes to see. I just read a verse this morning that so typifies the typical response of professing believers to all these things... "Acts 7:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted November 7, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Unbelievers who have become Christians through me are about the only persons who have ever, and I mean ever, changed their thinking about something I was sharing with them. Whoa right there.... Not one person has ever been saved except by the Holy Spirit. Not one. Would you care to rephrase the above? I agree Fez. Only God saves people. I find it ironic that I used a phrase "I've seen people get saved" or some such which is not exactly correct biblically but which has worked it's way into our Christian vernacular and yet when I talk about the need to get away from statements such as "going" to Church...well that's not good. But you are correct of course Fez. I can no more save anyone than any of us can "go" to Church as if Church is a place to go to. The correct biblical truth is that God does the saving and that Church is who we are not a building. So...let's see... How about "The only persons whom I can remember ever changing their minds about anything I have ever shared with them have been those that God has seen fit to save through my sharing of the Gospel with them". Better I think but a bit long worded. I still like the shortened phrase "that i've seen saved" as in my being a witness to their salvation. But I can understand that such a shortened phrase might not come across quite biblical. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted November 7, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Messiah Complex. I disagree but since there is nothing I can say which is likely to change your mind and see to my heart and the truth of what I am saying...I'll leave it at that. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Messiah Complex. I disagree but since there is nothing I can say which is likely to change your mind and see to my heart and the truth of what I am saying...I'll leave it at that. Carlos I need to reach the lost. Unbelievers who have become Christians through me are about the only persons who have ever, and I mean ever, changed their thinking about something I was sharing with them. I need to focus my attention on new one's that might become Christians through me and teach them from the ground up. You're looking for people who will not question you. People who will lean on you for guidance. Looking back I cannot think of a single, solitary Christian who has EVER changed their mind about anything that I have shared with them no matter how based in the Word and truthful what I was sharing was. I don't know why that is but that is the way it is. Some of that may involve my presentation if you will but a lot of it too is a general hardness of heart and dullness of hearing among the Christians I think. You don't like to be questioned and are unable to even consider the possibility of being wrong. Messiah Complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 7, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted November 7, 2010 I can no more save anyone than any of us can "go" to Church as if Church is a place to go to. Funny you should say that. We have just got back from church, South sang in the worship group and I assisted with the sound desk and computers. We worshiped, prayed, listened to an amazing word (one you might want to hear sometime), fellowshipped, had coffee, and went home. The kids had a kids worship today as well. My brother probably preached in a reed and thatch church in Mozambique today (have not heard from him do to the communication problems), but that's what he does. Felt like a church to me........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted November 7, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 You're looking for people who will not question you. People who will lean on you for guidance. That's an assumption on your part which is just plain wrong. If I wanted that...well...let's just say that I would never have come here to ask for input on an idea I had. This is the last place I would think of coming to have anyone lean on me for guidance since people here tend to have strong opinions but voila...here I am. Go figure. I am not interested in having people rubber stamp my opinions (which apart from what the Word says mean next to nothing). I am interested in people following what the Word says who are willing to scrap church traditions that get in the way of the Holy Spirit wanting to do through us as a Body what He did during New Testament times. You don't like to be questioned and are unable to even consider the possibility of being wrong. You know I am somewhat surprised that someone like yourself who supposedly knows the Bible well is not following the biblically sound way of asking rather than assuming about what I think Man. I mean instead of assuming that I don't like being questioned you could have...well...asked me if I like being questioned. Instead of assuming that I am unable to consider the possiblity of being wrong you could have asked me if I am ever wrong or think I might be. That type of thing. I welcome such questions but it does not appear that you are intersested in the truth about what I think or in any real answers I might give. Rather you seem more inclined to want to just assume what I believe and operate on that assumption to make invalid points that line up with what you want to believe about me Man culminating of course in your insistance that I have some kind of Messiah Complex. May I ask why you assume rather than ask? Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlos123 Posted November 7, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,015 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 97 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 I can no more save anyone than any of us can "go" to Church as if Church is a place to go to. Funny you should say that. We have just got back from church, South sang in the worship group and I assisted with the sound desk and computers. We worshiped, prayed, listened to an amazing word (one you might want to hear sometime), fellowshipped, had coffee, and went home. The kids had a kids worship today as well. My brother probably preached in a reed and thatch church in Mozambique today (have not heard from him do to the communication problems), but that's what he does. Felt like a church to me........ I praise God for any good that came from your Church service Fez. I have never said every Church that operates in North America is unbiblical or not being what they ought to be. Only that a great many of them, in the form in which they are found, are falling way short of what the Lord wants the Body to be. Instead of inviting people "to" Church we need to go have a burger with them at McDonald's and get to know them. Instead of having just a home group we need to become a home for one's who might not have one or about to lose theirs. instead of just sitting around on a Sunday watching the spectacle of Church as spectators we need to become active participants as members of the Body exercising their gifts within the assembly when the Spirit prompts. Instead of not seeing each other except on Sundays and Wednesday nights we need to be intimately involved in each other's lives all week long. Getting together to pray, eat, cook, go shopping and whatever else we might be able to do. Together. For the mutual benefit of all and as a way to give us more opportunity to disciple each other and love on each other. In the New Testament they were together. They ate their meals together with glad and sincere hearts. They broke break in their homes. They shared their possessions. They sold houses and land and gave the proceeds to allow needs in the Body to be met. They had baptisms outside, in the open before all the people not in baptisimals cloistered away inside Church buildings. The Gospel was one of becoming disciples of Jesus as an expression of trusting God for forgiveness not this feel good, yeah I'll take salvation while living for myself, type of Gospel that separates the Lordship of Jesus Christ over our lifes from our salvation as if we could take or leave His lordship while getting ourselves saved. If think your Church is all that it is supposed to be, that the New Testament talks of being, and if it truly is...all the more power to your Church Fez. May we have 10,000 more like it. But if it is not...then it needs to change. It's really that simple. Don't make what I am saying to be any more complicated than that. Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts