Fez Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Now that I have received some reasoned answers from some posters on this thread about Mary, allow me to ask another question that takes this a bit further. Where does canonization fit in, and what part do the other "saints" (I believe we are are "saints" in one biblical sense), in the Catholic religion? I can, and have, looked at official Catholic sites, but they would have a different explanation as to someone who is not Catholic but the very nature and intent of the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Having a "saint" over a particular thing reminds me of the Greco-Roman gods. Other than that, I have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caste Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/22/1984 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Now that I have received some reasoned answers from some posters on this thread about Mary, allow me to ask another question that takes this a bit further. Where does canonization fit in, and what part do the other "saints" (I believe we are are "saints" in one biblical sense), in the Catholic religion? I can, and have, looked at official Catholic sites, but they would have a different explanation as to someone who is not Catholic but the very nature and intent of the site. Even the cult of saints comes from syncretism, as Nebula rightly underlined, It can really be linked to the Greek-romans habit of having the "Lari" (I think that in english they are lar or lares). They were domestic divinities with the role of protecting the homes. With time this role passed to the cononized saints of the roman catholic church. Time ago I've read a interesting quotation from a Catholic theologian, to explain the practice of praying Mary or the saints it said something like this: "Imagine that you are in great industry. If you need something you can't always ask the boss, because he has many things to do, so you can call one of his attendant and they will intercede for you" I think this is really a decepting way of seeing God'kingdom, but it explains in some way how this habit was born and can survive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The Catholics I know and the Catholic Catechism say that they are simply asking someone to pray for them. So they would say asking Mary or any other saint in heaven to pray for them is no different than asking a friend or a pastor to pray for you. The also believe that the passage below in Revelation refers to Mary. A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2011 This IS NOT, nor is it intended to be, a Catholic bashing session. Please keep on the topic without judgment or condemnation (neither of which I have for our Catholic brothers and sisters). Try as I might, I cannot find a scriptural reason why the Catholic church worships Mary in so many forms and ways. Can anyone help me understand the reasoning behind the doctrine? Grace please, otherwise we shut it down Ok?. In the very simple of Scripture Matt 12:50 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother." NKJV Matt 19:29-30 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first. NKJV This clearly the understanding... Love Steven I'm sorry, Steven, but to me the only clear that is, is 'clear as mud.' Could you explain a bit more, please? 'Cause I'm kinda You are not ! but if you hunger for more of Him you must empty that which you hold now that is not of Him so that He may fill Himself in that emptied place within... The Lord has fully exposed His purpose in coming John 18:37 >That truth< that He delivered was constantly shown and stated throughout His Life... to love the Lord our God with all of being and as to others to lift to this same purpose of love unto God The Father.... In the garden it was shown to us to the nth degree- Father... with all of my being Christ, The Lord of Glory, requested another way rather than separation from His Father as a result of bearing our sins in His Person! His resolve was complete abandonment of Holy Self desire and to yield fully unto The Father's Holy Will! Listed above in those verses is the directive put into practice where that which is closest, that which you hold most dear, should be as hate- because of it's pull away from that purposed directive "Your Will Father" be the entirety of motive in my being! Luke 14:26-29 26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2011 The also believe that the passage below in Revelation refers to Mary. A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldEnglishSheepdog Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 844 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 118 Days Won: 11 Joined: 12/23/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2011 Now that I have received some reasoned answers from some posters on this thread about Mary, allow me to ask another question that takes this a bit further. Where does canonization fit in, and what part do the other "saints" (I believe we are are "saints" in one biblical sense), in the Catholic religion? I can, and have, looked at official Catholic sites, but they would have a different explanation as to someone who is not Catholic but the very nature and intent of the site. Do you mean canonization of doctrine or of saints which is called beautification? And what would you like to know about where it fits, and the role of saints? Saints in scripture are identified as any Christians, but the term simply means to belong to a religion. It was a term that was at the time in paganism, and even applied to temple prostitutes. It just means you're branded to a religion, but the RCC meaning is quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The also believe that the passage below in Revelation refers to Mary. A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Now that I have received some reasoned answers from some posters on this thread about Mary, allow me to ask another question that takes this a bit further. Where does canonization fit in, and what part do the other "saints" (I believe we are are "saints" in one biblical sense), in the Catholic religion? I can, and have, looked at official Catholic sites, but they would have a different explanation as to someone who is not Catholic but the very nature and intent of the site. Do you mean canonization of doctrine or of saints which is called beautification? And what would you like to know about where it fits, and the role of saints? Saints in scripture are identified as any Christians, but the term simply means to belong to a religion. It was a term that was at the time in paganism, and even applied to temple prostitutes. It just means you're branded to a religion, but the RCC meaning is quite different. Beautification - such as in Mother Theresa. What part do they play in the Catholic faith as far as the church and believers go? Are they prayed to as well. As to the meaning of "saints", I believe that it applies to any saved Christian, yes. As do I believe (as mentioned in the great commission), that we are all to be disciples. One can hardly go out and make "disciples of nations", if one is not also a disciple, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger398 Posted February 24, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 562 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,074 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 648 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/01/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1966 Share Posted February 24, 2011 All I know is unless mary died and suffer on the cross for my sins. I will not bow or pray to mary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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