The Great Apostacy - Lost Forever

[Fez]

I hope this isn't off topic but I have a question. I know of a minister, with several thousand followers, who closed his church and skipped that Sunday service, for the super bowl.

Where does he fit in this?

He is a football fan. Even Ministers are human, and I can't see that he committed any sin.

(probably find half the men in his congregation watched it as well).

I have skipped church on a few occasions with my pastor and elders to go fishing, simply because we needed the break.

[wyguy]

Looking at this Biblically....

One who claims to be a Christian and turns away was NEVER a believer to begin with.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." (1 John 2:19)

God will never allow a true believer to be lost. Nobody can take away the salvation of an actual believer - not even themselves.

"Nothing in ALL CREATION can separate us from the love of God." (Romans 8:39)

Are people created beings? Of course they are.

"My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they NEVER shall perish; NO ONE can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28)

Does "no one" include the believer? Of course it does.

Jesus PROMISES that He will COMPLETE the work begun in the believer. (Philippians 1:6, Hebrews 12:2)

He also says that He will lose NONE that have been given to Him. (John 6:39)

And Ephesians 1:13-14 says true believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit GUARANTEEING their inheritance.

NO true believer can turn away from Jesus and be lost.

A person can hear the Gospel, be enlightened by the Holy Spirit to the truth of it, and yet reject it to the point where the heart becomes hardened against it.

The Bible is clear: There is NO sin that God cannot forgive. The Bible says over and over again that Jesus died for ALL sin - not just most, not just some, but ALL sin.

If a person has the desire to be saved, they can be saved. Because the very desire to be saved comes from the Father.

Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." (John 6:44)

Anyone who believes they may have committed the sin of apostasy, or any "unpardonable sin," and thus cannot be saved, yet still has the desire to be saved, be assured, you CAN BE SAVED. God is not going to give you the desire to be saved, nor the faith and repentance you need to be saved, if there was no chance you could be saved.

Jesus gave one of the most beautiful promises in all of Scripture when He said:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will NEVER drive away."

All true believers in Christ who backslide will ALWAYS come back to Him, and no true believer in Jesus can EVER be lost.

[OneLight]

Could it be that the reason why most look at the word as belonging to the church is because this is a Christian site and we are discussing the church?

You're assuming that the church is involved in the apostasy. This being a Christian site and the church being the topic of discussion has no bearing as to the true definition of the word 'apostasy?' I challenge anybody to prove that apostasy has something to do with the church.

When we read in scripture of the falling away, it is speaking of the body of Christ and His truth.

I know that's what we've all been taught. Can you prove that it does indeed imply the body of Christ and His truth? I can prove it has something to do with the man of sin because the word is used in relation to the man of sin.

Thessalonians 2:3

[Guest]

Looking at this Biblically....

One who claims to be a Christian and turns away was NEVER a believer to begin with.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." (1 John 2:19)

God will never allow a true believer to be lost. Nobody can take away the salvation of an actual believer - not even themselves.

"Nothing in ALL CREATION can separate us from the love of God." (Romans 8:39)

Are people created beings? Of course they are.

"My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they NEVER shall perish; NO ONE can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28)

Does "no one" include the believer? Of course it does.

Jesus PROMISES that He will COMPLETE the work begun in the believer. (Philippians 1:6, Hebrews 12:2)

He also says that He will lose NONE that have been given to Him. (John 6:39)

And Ephesians 1:13-14 says true believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit GUARANTEEING their inheritance.

NO true believer can turn away from Jesus and be lost.

A person can hear the Gospel, be enlightened by the Holy Spirit to the truth of it, and yet reject it to the point where the heart becomes hardened against it.

The Bible is clear: There is NO sin that God cannot forgive. The Bible says over and over again that Jesus died for ALL sin - not just most, not just some, but ALL sin.

If a person has the desire to be saved, they can be saved. Because the very desire to be saved comes from the Father.

Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." (John 6:44)

Anyone who believes they may have committed the sin of apostasy, or any "unpardonable sin," and thus cannot be saved, yet still has the desire to be saved, be assured, you CAN BE SAVED. God is not going to give you the desire to be saved, nor the faith and repentance you need to be saved, if there was no chance you could be saved.

Jesus gave one of the most beautiful promises in all of Scripture when He said:

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will NEVER drive away."

All true believers in Christ who backslide will ALWAYS come back to Him, and no true believer in Jesus can EVER be lost.

Amen~!

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Romans 8:31-33

Jesus

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Romans 8:34-37

Saves

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

Good~!

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

[Guest borderline]

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[Guest borderline]

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Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[OneLight]

I would like to see your evidence!

Evidence? What are they falling away from?

The problem is they're not falling away from anything. They are abandoning their former religion or political position and accepting another. The only reason I've found for many of these interpretations was the perception Protestant's acquired and held because of the RCC's influence of the past. They were convinced Rome was the beast and formed many of their beliefs around that.

There are so many English words that just don't do justice to the truth of the original text. The word apostasy is the same word for forsake used in Acts 21:21

[Guest]

The problem is they're not falling away from anything. They are abandoning their former religion or political position and accepting another.

Simply

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

Jesus

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

Or Not

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

Either Lean On Him

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

Or Not

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

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One Teacher

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. Matthew 23:7

One Papa

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matthew 23:9-12

One Faith

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

And One Hope

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Ephesians 1:17-23

Once And For All Time

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 7:25-27

It Is Finished~!

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 19:30

[Guest SDGS]

I hope this isn't off topic but I have a question. I know of a minister, with several thousand followers, who closed his church and skipped that Sunday service, for the super bowl.

Where does he fit in this?

He's not an apostate!

i don't even know what apostate is, but it sure felt wrong to me, to not hold sunday worship, to watch football. It seemed to be saying football meant more than God. i was just curious, but i would have been upset if i went there because i hate football.

[Fez]

I hope this isn't off topic but I have a question. I know of a minister, with several thousand followers, who closed his church and skipped that Sunday service, for the super bowl.

Where does he fit in this?

He's not an apostate!

i don't even know what apostate is, but it sure felt wrong to me, to not hold sunday worship, to watch football. It seemed to be saying football meant more than God. i was just curious, but i would have been upset if i went there because i hate football.

We should be worshiping God with every breath we take, every day. Church is just a meeting place for believers, and important meeting place to be sure, and one close to my heart, but one Sunday in the scheme of things does not mean too much.