[Guest]

A Few Thoughts

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job:19:25-27

Gleaned Over The Years From Looking At The Imminent Rapture

He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20

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There Are Two Resurrections

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6

One Starts Up

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

With A Shout (Of Joy I Believe) For The Beloved

For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:21-25

And A Thousand Years Later The Second Call Up But This One Includes The Eternally Damned

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

And While I Have Considered At Times Whether Or Not The First Resurrection Could Be Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, Pre-Wrath Or Post-Tribulation

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Matthew 24:36-44

One Of The Things I Received Is A Heart-Wrenching Bone-Deep Knowledge That These Days Are Evil

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. Ephesians 5:14-17

And That Real Living Breathing Men And Woman Are Daily Spiraling Into Eternal Hell

Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness. Isaiah 5:14-16

And That Beloved, Just Breaks My Heart

They that sow in tears shall reap in joy.

He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him. Psalms 126:5-6

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However You Rowdy Jesus Kids Are Always A Delightful Blessing To This Old Man

Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Proverbs 27:17

And I Am So Thankful For These Times

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Ephesians 5:19-20

We Have Together

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! Psalms 133:1

On Battlefield

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

Earth

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Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[enoob57]

Wow, This is a topic that greatly interest me. My husband believes that there is no support for a pre tribulation rapture. He says people only want to believe that because they cannot fathom a God that would allow his children to endure such trials. I think both Steven and Bearthecross make wonderful points and I will have to study the scriptures to really make an educated stand on this issue. I only pray that if I am alive and on Earth when the tribulation gets here my faith will not waiver.

Welcome to Worthy... The Lord says

1 Cor 10:12

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

NKJV

Because you are already hoping in God that He keeps you standing... He Will! Love Steven

[OneLight]

I had asked this question before in another thread, but received no real answer, so allow me to ask it again.

Let's say that the rapture happens before the tribulation, or mid-trib. Will there be new converts to Christianity during the tribulation or the latter part due to the work of the 144,000 elect? If so, will they have to go through the tribulation or will they be raptured before the wrath is poured out, making two raptures?

I do so hope the question is understandable, because it is rarely discussed and, to the best of my recollection, ignored. Do I need to ask this another way?

Yes.! If we look at those who are part of the first resurrection, we can see this clearly.

In Christ,

I need clarification. Are you saying you believe there is more then one rapture?

No, there seems to be only one rapture, but the first resurrection, which comes immediately after Jesus' return, contains those who have died during the tribulation. It is interesting to read the description of those who are part of this resurrection.

"And I saw the souls of those who those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection." Rev.20:4-5

Jesus said that He is the resurrection and the life. We have been raised up in His resurrection already, in the Spirit. We have died and our lives are now hidden in heaven in Christ with God. For us, the rapture is just putting off this old flesh of corruption and putting on perfection, when we become just as He is. But we have already come alive, for Jesus said "Truly, truly, I say to you, that an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear shall live." This had happened already, when Jesus said this. The resurrection is something else again.

In Christ,

vic

I agree that the first Resurrection comes after Christ returns, but do you believe that all those who turn to Christ after the rapture will be killed ... every one of them? If not, they they will have to go through the the hardest times this earth has ever seen.

I ask because I believe that God will make a way for His children to live through these times without being affected, as He did in Egypt and the days of Noah, as examples.

[OneLight]

I suppose it is possible that some will survive until He returns. It will be very hard. A place will be set aside for the woman, who I believe is the believers from among the Jews. The dragon tries very hard to swallow her up.

But if one did survive even through the wrath of God being poured out upon the face of the earth, if they had received the Spirit of truth, then I believe that they would become just as Jesus is when they see Him coming in the clouds in His glory.

I used to believe that the rapture is the first resurrection, as I was taught this way. But when I turned myself over to the Spirit to be taught, the question became, "who are those at the wedding feast of the Lamb?" I plan on being at this feast, which comes before His return.

In Christ

You are right to say that the first Resurrection is only for those who are beheaded for the cause of Christ during the tribulation, which is clearly stated in Revelation 20:4-5, as you pointed out. But the question that still needs to be considered is this.

If there is a pre-trib rapture, where one of the major points is that God has not assigned us to wrath, then either there will be a second rapture for those who turn to Christ during the tribulation; everyone who turns to Christ will be beheaded; nobody turns to Christ during the tribulation; or this pre-trib point is misunderstood to mean being raptured. This was the point that started me questioning my belief in the pre-trib rapture many years ago. Nobody has been able to successfully answer this question.

[Guest]

I used to believe that the rapture is the first resurrection, as I was taught this way. But when I turned myself over to the Spirit to be taught, the question became, "who are those at the wedding feast of the Lamb?" I plan on being at this feast, which comes before His return.

Could It Be That The Wedding Feast Is A Real Feast

And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:5-11

And That It Is On Earth And That It Is In Jerusalem Town

And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering. And at the side without, as one goeth up to the entry of the north gate, were two tables; and on the other side, which was at the porch of the gate, were two tables.

Four tables were on this side, and four tables on that side, by the side of the gate; eight tables, whereupon they slew their sacrifices. And the four tables were of hewn stone for the burnt offering, of a cubit and an half long, and a cubit and an half broad, and one cubit high: whereupon also they laid the instruments wherewith they slew the burnt offering and the sacrifice. And within were hooks, an hand broad, fastened round about: and upon the tables was the flesh of the offering. Ezekiel 40:39-43

And That It Goes On Daily For A Thousand Years?

Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning. And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the LORD. Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every morning for a continual burnt offering. Ezekiel 46:13-15

Could It Be?

~

And I Am Sure That All Who Trust In The LORD Jesus Will Be There

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6

See You Soon Beloved

Love, Joe

[OneLight]

I suppose it is possible that some will survive until He returns. It will be very hard. A place will be set aside for the woman, who I believe is the believers from among the Jews. The dragon tries very hard to swallow her up.

But if one did survive even through the wrath of God being poured out upon the face of the earth, if they had received the Spirit of truth, then I believe that they would become just as Jesus is when they see Him coming in the clouds in His glory.

I used to believe that the rapture is the first resurrection, as I was taught this way. But when I turned myself over to the Spirit to be taught, the question became, "who are those at the wedding feast of the Lamb?" I plan on being at this feast, which comes before His return.

In Christ

You are right to say that the first Resurrection is only for those who are beheaded for the cause of Christ during the tribulation, which is clearly stated in Revelation 20:4-5, as you pointed out. But the question that still needs to be considered is this.

If there is a pre-trib rapture, where one of the major points is that God has not assigned us to wrath, then either there will be a second rapture for those who turn to Christ during the tribulation; everyone who turns to Christ will be beheaded; nobody turns to Christ during the tribulation; or this pre-trib point is misunderstood to mean being raptured. This was the point that started me questioning of my belief in the pre-trib rapture many years ago. Nobody has been able to successfully answer this question.

I believe that many misunderstand what the rapture is. For insight, I turn to a saying of Jesus, when He was talking to Martha at the grave of Lazarus. He said that He is the resurrection and the life, and that everyone who believes in Him will live, even if they die, and everyone who lives and believes in Him will never die. I asked the Holy Spirit to explain this to me, as there seemed to be a contradiction, believe, and live even if one dies, and live and believe and never die. I didn't understand why the difference. It took 7 years to understand. We are offered the chance to become alive in Him, in His resurrection, and in this He is the "Life." But many believe and never take the "life," and yet they shall live, after they die.

Neither of these are the resurrections, first or second. The rapture is the result of those who are alive in Him, seeing Him and becoming like He is. For those who believe and die, the rapture is the change of their bodies into bodies like His, and their being joined with these new bodies. The power of this work is the power that was manifested when God raised Jesus from the dead, which means that this is in a way a resurrection, only it has already happened, 2000 years ago. So basically, all that the rapture is is the changing of our corruptible flesh for incorruptible flesh, to put off this mortality for immortality. And this has truly happened already, when Jesus was raised.

It is hard to explain, but pray about it and see what the Spirit says.

In Christ,

vic

The rapture, or being caught up, is a real event that will take place. Otherwise, why would scripture say in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." if it were not a real event? The rapture, or being caught up, is not the sanctification process.

[OneLight]

I suppose it is possible that some will survive until He returns. It will be very hard. A place will be set aside for the woman, who I believe is the believers from among the Jews. The dragon tries very hard to swallow her up.

But if one did survive even through the wrath of God being poured out upon the face of the earth, if they had received the Spirit of truth, then I believe that they would become just as Jesus is when they see Him coming in the clouds in His glory.

I used to believe that the rapture is the first resurrection, as I was taught this way. But when I turned myself over to the Spirit to be taught, the question became, "who are those at the wedding feast of the Lamb?" I plan on being at this feast, which comes before His return.

In Christ

You are right to say that the first Resurrection is only for those who are beheaded for the cause of Christ during the tribulation, which is clearly stated in Revelation 20:4-5, as you pointed out. But the question that still needs to be considered is this.

If there is a pre-trib rapture, where one of the major points is that God has not assigned us to wrath, then either there will be a second rapture for those who turn to Christ during the tribulation; everyone who turns to Christ will be beheaded; nobody turns to Christ during the tribulation; or this pre-trib point is misunderstood to mean being raptured. This was the point that started me questioning of my belief in the pre-trib rapture many years ago. Nobody has been able to successfully answer this question.

I believe that many misunderstand what the rapture is. For insight, I turn to a saying of Jesus, when He was talking to Martha at the grave of Lazarus. He said that He is the resurrection and the life, and that everyone who believes in Him will live, even if they die, and everyone who lives and believes in Him will never die. I asked the Holy Spirit to explain this to me, as there seemed to be a contradiction, believe, and live even if one dies, and live and believe and never die. I didn't understand why the difference. It took 7 years to understand. We are offered the chance to become alive in Him, in His resurrection, and in this He is the "Life." But many believe and never take the "life," and yet they shall live, after they die.

Neither of these are the resurrections, first or second. The rapture is the result of those who are alive in Him, seeing Him and becoming like He is. For those who believe and die, the rapture is the change of their bodies into bodies like His, and their being joined with these new bodies. The power of this work is the power that was manifested when God raised Jesus from the dead, which means that this is in a way a resurrection, only it has already happened, 2000 years ago. So basically, all that the rapture is is the changing of our corruptible flesh for incorruptible flesh, to put off this mortality for immortality. And this has truly happened already, when Jesus was raised.

It is hard to explain, but pray about it and see what the Spirit says.

In Christ,

vic

The rapture, or being caught up, is a real event that will take place. Otherwise, why would scripture say in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." if it were not a real event? The rapture, or being caught up, is not the sanctification process.

Hey, I believe that the rapture is a real event. I just think that it is more an event that is bound up in the resurrection of Jesus.

You see, if we are in His resurrection then we have already been resurrected. All we need is to be changed into His likeness. But if we are not in His life, His eternal life which is His after His resurrection, then we are needing to be resurrected. Therefore, Jesus says that He is the resurrection and the life.

In Christ,

I agree. Then, what happens to those who turn to Christ after the pre-trib rapture? Are they all beheaded? Every single one of them? How does this bridge with the "not appointed to wrath scripture"?

Yes, I believe we are not appointed to wrath, but I believe that God will protect us as He unleashes His wrath. As with the Israelite people in Egypt, God protected every one of them through all the curses He released on Egypt as a testimony to Him. Yet, like what is to come, if even the Israelis did not place the atoning blood over their door, the angle of death would of visited them also.

[Guest]

So one person was looking a square on the east, one on the west, north and south. The all came together to discuss what they saw. One describes shadows, and rough edges, while another described the light he saw on his square and the other saw something different too. . But there was a problem, they argued over which square was the true square. Suddenly, there was a shake and rattle and roar. They all hear a voice. Why are you arguing? They explain that they believe their part of the square is right. Then the voice laughs and says.......this is a cube.

Ah!

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Revelation 1:2-3

You Read It Too

And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. Revelation 21:15-17

[GlidingWings]

First read this. See that they have white Robes those who were killed in the Tribulation. Now let

[GlidingWings]

First read this. See that they have white Robes those who were killed in the Tribulation. Now let