Smalcald Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 3, 2011 byron, I do somewhat agree with you about temptations Byron. We all face and wrestle with temptations and each of us have different temptations to wrestle with. So yes some people without a doubt have a temptation to have sex with people of the same sex, I agree that just having that temptation is not in itself a sin. Dwelling on it though, fantasizing, lusting, etc would be where the problem comes into play; basically giving in to the temptation. Certainly sexual sin is not new to the Christian church, we know living together in sin, adultery and divorce abounds across denominations from the very fundamentalist to the very liberal, and this is no worse or better than fornication through gay sex. I think though in this case there is an effort to endorse being a sexually active gay person, which is simply outside of the bounds of scripture. But this is hard; people will fail in this area of sexual lust, Christianity is really a lifelong process of falling down and getting back up again. But the Church should be there to help us get up, to help heal us from sin, not encourage sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 3, 2011 No, it was brought up because original sin was an underlying assumption, that anyone born gay was because they were born corrupt do to our corrupt natures. My response was that babies are born innocent. Original sin comes into play because of the fallen nature of the world around us, not because of some kind of sin the baby was born with. And Candace's response was to give evidence that babies show evidence of being far from innocent-natured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Ps 51:5 I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Eph 2:3 Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Bend scripture here and there, adapt it just a tiny bit, squeeze another rear end into a pew........ Or leave the doors wide open, follow scripture to the letter, pray, and let the Holy Spirit work. And when His work walks through the door, love as Jesus commands us to..... I choose the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi Candice, I do think you can have any number of temptations and not take part in the sin. So there is indeed a certain segment of our population who has homosexual urges that is pretty well established, just like there are some men and women who have very strong temptations to fornicate. But the choice is how we handle this temptation. When a 14 year old kid finds himself attracted to other boys is this some sort of choice he is suddenly making? No, he has been given a temptation that he will probably wrestle with the rest of his life or maybe not maybe he will be freed of this temptation. We are not told by God that we will be totally free of all temptations in this life. I think we need to have some compassion without losing our adherence to the Word of God and compassion is part of the Word anyway. So take a person highly tempted by adultery. He or she cheats, maybe leaves their husband or wife, divorces them and re-marries. They feel horrible about their adultery, they repent and promise to never do it again, but of course they stay in the second marriage. It is much like a robber who feels horrible and repents, but you know keeps the money. So now consider a second person who is tempted by gay sex, they have sex they feel guilty and promise to not do it again, but of course they don't have the second husband or wife, they are likely called by God to be celibate and single for their entire life. This is a hard thing but they must do it. So I just think we need to have some compassion and help for them. What the Methodist Church in this case is doing is not having any compassion at all, but simply saying there is no help for you in Christ so enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi Candice, I do think you can have any number of temptations and not take part in the sin. So there is indeed a certain segment of our population who has homosexual urges that is pretty well established, just like there are some men and women who have very strong temptations to fornicate. But the choice is how we handle this temptation. When a 14 year old kids finds himself attracted to other boys is this some sort of choice he is suddenly making? No, he has been given a temptation that he will probably wrestle with the rest of his life or maybe not maybe he will be freed of this temptation. We are not told by God that we will be totally free of all temptations in this life. I think we need to have some compassion without losing our adherence to the Word of God and compassion is part of the Word anyway. So take a person highly tempted by adultery. He or she cheats, maybe leaves their husband or wife, divorces them and re-marries. They feel horrible about their adultery, they repent and promise to never do it again, but of course they stay in the second marriage. So take as second person who is tempted by gay sex, they have sex they feel guilty and promise to not do it again, but of course they don't have the second husband or wife, they are likely called by God to be celibate and single for their entire life. This is a hard thing but they must do it. Hi Smalclad, Of course they can have the temptation and not act on it! That is the promise of 1 Cor 10:13. We are all tempted in differing ways. Temptation is not a sin, and should never be called such. Jesus was tempted. But likewise the sin nature / temptation to sin is not of Him and should never be 'accepted as who I am', we are new creatures in Christ. This debate, is not one or the other, but both. So while I agree homosexual temptations is not a sin but rather a temptation not of Him, I don't see this as a concession that somehow makes homosexual temptations OK. I honestly feel that the push to accept the orientation but not the action keeps the homosexual trapped in their desires. I also don't think Ro 1 should be twisted to say that people choose to suffer homosexual temptations, because they don't. None of us choose which sins we are tempted by, only which sins we commit. The bible is clear that the homosexual chooses to act on his/her temptations, but I don't think they have invited the temptation. I really do feel compassion for those still trapped in desires that don't match His. It's horrible and far harder to resist than many people give credit for. I know because I walked it for many years. So I am a little confused as to why your post was addressed to me, but I will take it as an apt word anyway, we should always do as Col 4:6 says and speak in grace. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi Candice, Yeah I think we agree. I was just addressing that you said homosexuality was a choice 100% of the time, its probably semantics, but I would call someone a homosexual who was burdened with these temptations. I mean I am not burdened with any temptations to other men so for me it seems nuts to be tempted by that and it is easy to resist! I mean I do really well in resisting gay temptations because for me they don't exist! Other temptations well they are harder for me. But I do agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterH Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 196 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2011 This boggles the mind. I would not want to be the in the crowd that twist God's words to make people comfortable. If these people, the church, are saved can you imagine the anguish and torment they will have to endure on Judgement day when the people they lied to and for whom they twisted scripture to make them feel comfortable in this fleeting life point at them and accuse them before God as they are thrown into hell. I know I live in a glass house but, God willing, I will not twist God's word or stand by while someone else does and not speak up. That's not love. You have to love the person and hate the sin. If you love them then you won't let them continue in sin with out warning them and warning them can make them feel very uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted May 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hi Candice, Yeah I think we agree. I was just addressing that you said homosexuality was a choice 100% of the time, its probably semantics, but I would call someone a homosexual who was burdened with these temptations. I mean I am not burdened with any temptations to other men so for me it seems nuts to be tempted by that and it is easy to resist! I mean I do really well in resisting gay temptations because for me they don't exist! Other temptations well they are harder for me. But I do agree with you. Are you sure that wasn't Cobalt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 We are born perfect and innocent. We have the undistorted image of God within us at birth. .... However, a baby is innocent, free from sin. Is this not the whole idea behind the age of accountability, and children automatically being saved up to that age? I guess my view is that if we compare it to "Nature vs. nurture" debate, I come out on the side of sin being "nurtured". Naturally Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Ephesians 2:3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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