The Message

[OneLight]

Sorry I did not answer your question immediately. I am new to this site. I was told many great minds were here, many mature and edified individuals.

...I'd like to be introduced to that comedian.

The comedian was me. As ManApart began posting down to people, informing us that if we study enough we will understand as he does, I sent him a PM asking him to treat us as an equal and not to talk down to people so people will not reject what he has to say. I also informed him that there are people here that have been studying scripture longer then he and I. My exact PM to him is as follows. He has taken what I said and created his own description. Take my edification of my brothers and sisters as you will.

I really don't want to demean your good advice, but please, don't talk down to me. I have been a christian longer then you have been on this earth. I have given many years to studying scripture myself, along with coming to understand other belief systems as some are trying to blend them into the Christian faith.

You will find many others here that have done the same, and some far more then either of us

.

Learn to speak to each person as an equal and you will be heard. Talk down to them, and you will be rejected.

Colossians 4:6

Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

God Bless,

Alan

[OneLight]

You asked about characters, which ones are not literal. Cain and Able are examples.

Besides Cain and Able, who else do you consider not literal? What else in the bible, outside of the parables, do you consider just a story?

Botz has already demonstrated Able should be taken literally... surely it follows that "characters" later in the history should also be literal?

I was seeking to find out what else he rejects as truth, believing it to be fable. I surely do not agree with him, neither was I asking his advice.

[~candice~]

You asked about characters, which ones are not literal. Cain and Able are examples.

Besides Cain and Able, who else do you consider not literal? What else in the bible, outside of the parables, do you consider just a story?

Botz has already demonstrated Able should be taken literally... surely it follows that "characters" later in the history should also be literal?

I was seeking to find out what else he rejects as truth, believing it to be fable. I surely do not agree with him, neither was I asking his advice.

Sorry, I was adding to your point, not questioning it . I should have been more clear.

[OneLight]

You asked about characters, which ones are not literal. Cain and Able are examples.

Besides Cain and Able, who else do you consider not literal? What else in the bible, outside of the parables, do you consider just a story?

Botz has already demonstrated Able should be taken literally... surely it follows that "characters" later in the history should also be literal?

I was seeking to find out what else he rejects as truth, believing it to be fable. I surely do not agree with him, neither was I asking his advice.

Sorry, I was adding to your point, not questioning it . I should have been more clear.

Still on my first cup of coffee. I apologize for my misreading of your post.

[Guest man]

To be a follower of Christ...there is a reason there are no true images of Jesus. Too many people even today, become to obsessed with the imagery of the image of Christ and fail to learn his Nature. His Nature is the only way we can become truly intimate and personal with Christ. That comes with prayer, meditation, contemplation, and most of studying who Jesus really was. Removing the contortions and manipulations of scripture. One has to know how he walked, thought, taught, spoke, etc...and to know it thoroughly, one has to understand the Jewish culture, traditions and customs. Get to know Jesus personally.

That's not true.

For one to truly and thoroughly know who Jesus Christ was, and is, having an understanding of the cultural is essential.

Is it needed for ones Salvation? Probably not, but who can say when one allows Jesus into their hearts.

You are shackling people with a burden that isn't necessary. You're also adding something to the Word. You say it probably isn't salvation related but then go on to say that maybe it is.

When you say things like this you are condemning countless multitudes of people. Because I know nothing about jewish culture, you're saying I don't know Christ. I don't believe it's your place to make that call.

[~candice~]

Sorry I did not answer your question immediately. I am new to this site. I was told many great minds were here, many mature and edified individuals.

...I'd like to be introduced to that comedian.

The comedian was me. As ManApart began posting down to people, informing us that if we study enough we will understand as he does, I sent him a PM asking him to treat us as an equal and not to talk down to people so people will not reject what he has to say. I also informed him that there are people here that have been studying scripture longer then he and I. My exact PM to him is as follows. He has taken what I said and created his own description. Take my edification of my brothers and sisters as you will.

I really don't want to demean your good advice, but please, don't talk down to me. I have been a christian longer then you have been on this earth. I have given many years to studying scripture myself, along with coming to understand other belief systems as some are trying to blend them into the Christian faith.

You will find many others here that have done the same, and some far more then either of us

.

Learn to speak to each person as an equal and you will be heard. Talk down to them, and you will be rejected.

Colossians 4:6

Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

God Bless,

Alan

There are mature believers and great minds here. The funny part has gone over my head, swoosh, but I give all involved the benefit of the doubt.

[ManApart]

Buit name='~candice~' timestamp='1308127408' post='1686137']

Man - what then do you say about the manner in which Jesus Himself read and understood the bible and it's inerrancy?

Jesus spoke of Adam as a literal person. He quoted passages from the OT as if they were literal and true. Was Jesus wrong, or just going along with the current understanding of the time?

I think it would be quite easy to make a case that Jesus' interpretation of the bible (at that time, the OT) should inform our interpretation of the bible and thoughts about inerrancy and inspiration. If the Son of God reads it, cherishes it, quotes it and teaches from it as if it were literal, what liberty do we have to read it any other way?

God bless

[ManApart]

You asked about characters, which ones are not literal. Cain and Able are examples. They are allegorical characters reflecting early Israel, when they had conflicts between the nomads and the agricultural sides. They were never meant to be real characters. According to Mainstream Christianity they are, but if you study the Hebrew culture and their historical writings, it is well explained. As far as we are taught, Cain and Abel were literal. When teaching a lesson, whether or not the character is real, does not really matter. Doesn't change the message being conveyed.

From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Jesus Himself was happy to use the example of Abel, as a real life character, no obfuscating the truth in His words....

49

[~candice~]

Man - what then do you say about the manner in which Jesus Himself read and understood the bible and it's inerrancy?

Jesus spoke of Adam as a literal person. He quoted passages from the OT as if they were literal and true. Was Jesus wrong, or just going along with the current understanding of the time?

I think it would be quite easy to make a case that Jesus' interpretation of the bible (at that time, the OT) should inform our interpretation of the bible and thoughts about inerrancy and inspiration. If the Son of God reads it, cherishes it, quotes it and teaches from it as if it were literal, what liberty do we have to read it any other way?

God bless

It seems every time I try and explain things, that I was under the impression those in here knew, I am constantly told I am wrong, and I should check my heart. I am very aware of what I know, what I have studied, and who i have studied under.

What I will do to answer the question you ask, and refer you to what to research. Midrash, a Jewish style of teaching. Look it up. There is one member who says he is Jewish, a am guessing a Messianic Jew. Having Hebrew roots and knowledge, he should be very familiar with midrash and how it is reflected in scripture. Midrash designates the use of sacred scripture; an interpretation. Midrash was not for interpretation of the literal sense,, but it was used for seeking the maximum of edifying lessons. The goal is a practical application to modern times.

Scripture can be retold, not in the historical sense, but in a manner to achieve edification. There is the "halakhah" and the "haggadah"; one for narrative teaching and the other a walking conduct type of teaching. Midrash is necessary in that it is personalizing the scriptures, and that it is an imaginative reconstruction of the inspired scripture. Literal sense, as historical facts and origins, is pushed aside, in order to extract the lesson; a principle, moral, or message. A true sympathetic understanding of midrash is essential in understanding Judaism and Christianity. To understand something in the Bible, one must know and understand how the intellectual and religious environment, and how they came to their own understanding. How they conveyed the lessons. Midrash was their way of taking sacred scripture, and making it applicable to their time.

As the culture grew and society changes, so do traditions and regulations. Anew society uses midrash to draw out the lessons, principles, and morals in the scripture, and midrash had it's part in the development of the early church.

Jesus used midrash as well as the rest of the teachers, priests, and scribes. It was very common in the Second Temple era. But, I am sure that I will be told I am wrong or something. I studied the culture that wrote the scriptures, and I believe that they know their writings better than those that teach Mainstream Christianity full of anti-semitism.

I pray I am not coming across rude, but I have been attacked since the first comment I gave. I was then accused of putting others down first. It's okay though, it is the norm I have seen my whole life in the church.

May grace and peace be with you.

I see no attack from anyone. Please quote where someone asked you to check your heart?

I asked how your view of scripture lines up with how Jesus handled it. And that hasn't been answered. Nothing more or less.

[ManApart]

Jesus also considered the flood a real literal event, with literal 'character' Noah.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels of Heaven, but only My Father.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the ark.

Mat 24:39 And they did not know until the flood came and took them all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man.

I truly do worry for the view you have of Christ, if your understanding of the inerrancy, inspiration and infalliability of the bible implies Jesus was wrong.

The flood , or deluge, epic is common around the world. A universal story. Over 200 srories, 50% older then the Hebrew account and 70% of those include the same details. Just different characters for the culture retelling the story. Noah was the Hebrew characte for the Hebrew realtion to the worldwide deluge story. but, once again I quess I am wrong, along with the rest of the world. Look up epics like the Epic of Gilgamesh, it had a strong influence on the Hebrew version of the deluge.

My view of Christ is very intimate. I know where I stand. I do honestly worry for the rest of the majority who think they actually know the facts, and preach and argue of details they do not know.

May grace and peace be with you.