The Message

[Guest]

Can God Lie?

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

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The Message is not a translation, but one mans twisted understanding of the Bible with new age and gnosticism thrown in to make it a dangerous lie. Read this The Message.

When Christian's stop demonizing their own bible maybe we'll see more converts to Christianity.

There are Christians who claim the NIV is straight from hell!

Is that the 'message' we should be declaring to an unsaved world?

The message bible just brings the message across. It's not a study bible and the only bad thing about it is your opinion of it!

One of these days...you and I are bound to agree on something!

Jesus Saves~!

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

[Guest]

There are over 100 mistakes in the KJV. The message bible isn't meant to be a study bible. It's meant to simply "get the message of the gospel across."

The more Christian's gripe and complain about certain versions of the bible, the more unbelievers are likely to avoid Christianity like the plague!

I can't blame them! Christian's are obsessed with demonizing themselves!

Believers are still fallen humans on this side of eternity, and I'm afraid that means that we all make mistakes. However, you seem more interested in condemning believers than discussing the differences between bible translations and paraphrases. I'm also wondering why you haven't answered several questions posed about specific parts of the Message. Why is that?

[OneLight]

Did Eugene Peterson actually call it a Bible?

Please understand, I am neither endorsing nor condemning The Message. My view on it is that it's not for me. But having read some of Peterson's other work, and having heard him speak in person, I am not convinced that he's a secret gnostic or an endorser of pagan beliefs.

If he's someone you don't put a lot of confidence in, fine. He's not the first guy I would turn to, but I'd trust him more than many other Bible teachers.

Yes, I quote from the very front of the Message I have:

The Message is a contemporary rendering of the Bible from the original language, crafted to present its tone, rhythm, events, and ideas in everyday language.

The next page it the title page which says:

The Message

The Bible in Contemporary Language

It goes on continuing to compare it to the bible as being equal, but just in today's language.

[glennagail]

Does anyone have a "Message" bible? What are your thoughts on the accuracy and layout on this translation? I find it frustrating that it lumps the verses into paragraphs, and doesn't break them down verse by verse, so you don't know where one ends and the next one starts.

i'm sure this will turn into a message bashing thread, so hopefully you'll see my thoughts before that happens.

i think it's a decent paraphrase, and i think it's more readable for kids and teens. so for that reason, i think it has a target audience that needs it and can be drawn to Christ through it. i won't knock it for that reason. my pastor often uses it in his sermons... we're a recovery church and have people coming in off the street. it's good for them. it reaches them. it speaks in a language that they can relate to.

but me personally, i don't care for it. i'm like you, it lumps things into paragraphs. you can't find the verses you're looking for. beyond that, it elaborates too much. it's way too wordy. and because of that wordiness, it sometimes gets a little off track from straight scripture, and can lead to misunderstandings in some parts. not all parts, i think MOST of the time it sticks very closely to scripture, but there are areas where it doesn't.

it's absolutely NOT good for study. oh man, it's good reading if you like a more novel-ish format, but it's definitely not good for study, and i hope that any young person who starts out with the message will graduate to a real bible in time.

but honestly, i think if someone really wants a paraphrase bible (face it, they are more "digestible" for new christians) they should skip the message and go for the "new living translation". that one also uses more common street lingo, and in fact, it uses more believable street lingo. the message tries too hard. the NLT sounds like how we really talk. and without being too wordy. and without writing paragraphs around verses. still, it's a paraphrase and not suitable for serious study.

I'm with youThe message,the Living bible and to date myself the good news for modern man are all OK as what I call reading bibles If you just want to read to get an idea of a story. Use something else for study. I know for myself coming from a home that did not go to church as a teenager the living bible spoke to me. I'm not sure I would have kept at it if I was reading say the King James. That being said if God wants to speak to you he can use anything he wants.

[Guest man]

Did Eugene Peterson actually call it a Bible?

It doesn't matter what Eugene calls it. It's what everyone else calls it and what it's being promoted as.

[ManApart]

Does anyone have a "Message" bible? What are your thoughts on the accuracy and layout on this translation? I find it frustrating that it lumps the verses into paragraphs, and doesn't break them down verse by verse, so you don't know where one ends and the next one starts.

Think genuine

[ManApart]

There are over 100 mistakes in the KJV. The message bible isn't meant to be a study bible. It's meant to simply "get the message of the gospel across."

The more Christian's gripe and complain about certain versions of the bible, the more unbelievers are likely to avoid Christianity like the plague!

I can't blame them! Christian's are obsessed with demonizing themselves!

Believers are still fallen humans on this side of eternity, and I'm afraid that means that we all make mistakes. However, you seem more interested in condemning believers than discussing the differences between bible translations and paraphrases. I'm also wondering why you haven't answered several questions posed about specific parts of the Message. Why is that?

I agree...the human race makes mistakes. Everything is based on impressions; our perceptions and interpretations of what is around us in our environment. We have different cultures, customs, and traditions, even within Christianity. Man changes, it is inevitable. Stories change as societies change. Stories, as well as scriptures, reflect the overall belief of the people. Look at our society today. We have many denominations; all divisions in reality. As man focuses on his own theories, ideas, and opinions, he looses sight of the core principles, and he branches out.

There is so much arguing over aspects of the Judeo- Christian Bible, and really it is from a lack of knowledge. Most Christians, here in Mainstream Christianity, are not raised with the thorough teachings of scripture. Most have no knowledge of the Hebrew people, Jewish customs and traditions, history of the Christian Church, or even philosophical and theological influences. All they know is the dogmatic teachings we are raised on. Most do not even understand dogma. An idea or belief that can be contrary to the original context, is then liked and accepted by the religious body, becoming a core belief and passed down as scripture.

You will find in these forums that people do not answer questions because they lack the knowledge. They think they know it all, but are far from the truth. Like a child first learning to add...thy think they know it all, yet have no knowledge of algebra or calculus.

[Treasure]

It seems that something that the human race puts so much faith and belief in, would be researched, learned, and known inside and out. I personally feel that if I am going to put my sincere trust and faith n something, I am going to known all about it...not just what someone tells me....unfortunately, the majority of the religious body does not think that way.

First, there would be no need for faith if God or His Word could be known inside and out.

Second, if you know all about it as you state, then you are God and will surely teach the rest of us all things.

Third, I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, not to be confused with any religious body.

Then in your next post

You will find in these forums that people do not answer questions because they lack the knowledge. They think they know it all, but are far from the truth. Like a child first learning to add...thy think they know it all, yet have no knowledge of algebra or calculus.

You would be correct in that statement, if it were directed toward me (but I know that isn't the case). I don't answer many questions because of my lack of knowledge. I exercise great caution for fear of misleading someone or taking Scripture out of context. I don't have great knowledge of Scripture but I am learning and I thank Him that He has blessed me with a passion for learning. I do however, love the Lord. I do trust Him and that trust wasn't built over years of studying any particular translation or paraphrase. It's not blind faith, for true faith isn't blind. The more I learn of Him, the more knowledge I acquire, the more I love Him and am in awe of Him. I'm certain that I am not far from the Truth as He confirms His Word throughout Scripture.

Perhaps you should check your heart and see how much it lines up with your knowledge and even more, with the heart of God. A great many people know of Him without actually knowing Him. I trust, considering the confidence with which you write, that you are not one to be categorized as such.

I am like a child first learning to add except for the part of thinking that I know it all. Algebra or calculus are totally lost on me. One's knowledge, or lack thereof, is no measure of faith.

[ManApart]

I raise a question for edification. Not to question Christianity or anything of the sort. I say this, because most that I talk to that are not sure of their foundation and question their own beliefs, seem to be the ones who always go on the defensive. That's understandable. Our faith and beliefs are so personal and intimate because they are internal. Anyone can question your job or hair, but when it comes to what we put or sincere tust in, we get defensive. It causes wars and death unfortuneately. Hesitation and caution is actually the tool to guard our inner tranquility. It's normal.

But my question is that, I ask if people really know and understand translations and versions, why we have what we have? Too many think that the KJV is the ultimate, and like it has been around since written history began. Do people know the Septuagint? Or the Vulgate? Do they know when the 66 book order was placed in the order we have today? Do they know the previous order? These are all questions that a student should know, but really is not readily known. It is not taught in the Church. And there is a reason for that, which can be easily learned if one study the history of the Christian Church. How many actually know the history of the Church?

I saw a post earlier that said the KJV had so many flaws. That statement can be good and bad. I assume that most take it as an attack, and really it depends on the motive behind the info. KJV...yes, it has it's flaws. Most are mistranslations. Like the Red Sea. We are taught that Moses and the Hebrews crossed the actual Red Sea. This is an English mistranslation. It is actually the Sea of Reeds. Even in the New Testament, we have the Epistle of James, part of the General Epistles. Jesus' half brother right?...his name wa not James. His real name was Jacob, or Ya'akov. The officals when applying for funding for the version told King James I that one of Jesus' brother's had the same name as the King. This got their funding, but also changed the name in Scripture.

Those things are not bad; that is human nature with a dispostion for mistakes. Those historical aspects are part of the education. It's esential. Even the basis of what we read; most don't know the Hebrew culture, and even then, to know the Hebrews, one must study the various cultures and civilazations that influenced them. the stories, myths, epics, sagas, poery, pose, etc... all influenced by other cultures.

How insignificant is it then to argue over one English version, in a line of MANY!

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15

[Matthitjah]

It seems that something that the human race puts so much faith and belief in, would be researched, learned, and known inside and out. I personally feel that if I am going to put my sincere trust and faith n something, I am going to known all about it...not just what someone tells me....unfortunately, the majority of the religious body does not think that way.

First, there would be no need for faith if God or His Word could be known inside and out.

Second, if you know all about it as you state, then you are God and will surely teach the rest of us all things.

Third, I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, not to be confused with any religious body.

Then in your next post

You will find in these forums that people do not answer questions because they lack the knowledge. They think they know it all, but are far from the truth. Like a child first learning to add...thy think they know it all, yet have no knowledge of algebra or calculus.

You would be correct in that statement, if it were directed toward me (but I know that isn't the case). I don't answer many questions because of my lack of knowledge. I exercise great caution for fear of misleading someone or taking Scripture out of context. I don't have great knowledge of Scripture but I am learning and I thank Him that He has blessed me with a passion for learning. I do however, love the Lord. I do trust Him and that trust wasn't built over years of studying any particular translation or paraphrase. It's not blind faith, for true faith isn't blind. The more I learn of Him, the more knowledge I acquire, the more I love Him and am in awe of Him. I'm certain that I am not far from the Truth as He confirms His Word throughout Scripture.

Perhaps you should check your heart and see how much it lines up with your knowledge and even more, with the heart of God. A great many people know of Him without actually knowing Him. I trust, considering the confidence with which you write, that you are not one to be categorized as such.

I am like a child first learning to add except for the part of thinking that I know it all. Algebra or calculus are totally lost on me. One's knowledge, or lack thereof, is no measure of faith.

Amen sis. I would add that Abraham didn't know very much at all about Scripture (it wasn't written down yet) and had no knowledge of the Word as we have come to know it. Yet He is the Father of our F-A-I-T-H and was called the F-R-I-E-N-D of God.

1Co 8:2

And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.

1Co 8:3

But if any man loves God, the same is known by him.