The Therefore and 20/20 Rules

[mizzdy]

Content! Context! Who the letters are written to are so often ignored, each one was written to and for a specific purpose(s) and groups. Finding out what was going on is better understood the way Isaiah suggested, heck go and read a couple chpts before and after to try and get the idea of whose it being written to and why. With so much of the NT being quoted and refered to I think its also important to go back and understand why its being referenced.

shalom,

Mizz

To understand the NT in it's entirety, one has to have an understanding of the OT books the NT scripture often refers to, or stands on. The bible compliments itself, it is not a maze of books separated by the authors, it is seamless from beginning to end.

Absolutely! Personally I don't like the terms 'old and new' to me its all Gods words. One of my fav teachers says about the NT, 'Theres nothing new in the NT just true!' or something like that. The bible itself witnesses itself, whats in the new was first wrote of in the old. Its a perfect book isn't it!!

shalom,

Mizz

Mizz, I don't know how to explain this, but I kinda don't look at it as a book. I can't explain it, it is like something awesome, eternity itself, is captured in what we call the bible. To me it is almost a living thing that sort of grows with me every day, but is also hugely bigger than me... As I said, I can't explain it....

To South I know, it is more like a mine that she, well, mines every day for gold. Then she gives away what she has mined to those who need it and goes looking for more....

I completely understand! Its shows us a perfect way to live and to life itself. And yes I mine for gold everyday too!! And don't you just love it when you had been searching praying and then letting it go only to find your answer in something totally unrelated? or we think they are unrelated!

Mizz

[tiggersp6083]

Izzy, the Pastor i was saved under used to use the therefore thing i always have liked it. and i also like the 20/20 rule too. read until the thought is finsihed that could be 20 before or more before or 20 after or more ty for posting this it is a good reminder GBU

[Isaiah 6:8]

Izzy, the Pastor i was saved under used to use the therefore thing i always have liked it. and i also like the 20/20 rule too. read until the thought is finsihed that could be 20 before or more before or 20 after or more ty for posting this it is a good reminder GBU

Your welcome!

[Guest]

Content! Context! Who the letters are written to are so often ignored, each one was written to and for a specific purpose(s) and groups. Finding out what was going on is better understood the way Isaiah suggested, heck go and read a couple chapters before and after to try and get the idea of whose it being written to and why. With so much of the NT being quoted and referenced to I think its also important to go back and understand why its being referenced.

To understand the NT in it's entirety, one has to have an understanding of the OT books the NT scripture often refers to, or stands on. The bible compliments itself, it is not a maze of books separated by the authors, it is seamless from beginning to end.

Absolutely! Personally I don't like the terms 'old and new' to me its all Gods words. One of my fav teachers says about the NT, 'Theres nothing new in the NT just true!' or something like that. The bible itself witnesses itself, whats in the new was first wrote of in the old. Its a perfect book isn't it!!

The Story

And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. Numbers 21:5-9

The Rest Of The Story

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:13-15

~

The Story

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you,

And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. Genesis 22:1-13

The Rest Of The Story

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

____________

The Bible

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, Psalms 40:7

The Big Book Of Jesus

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Hebrews 10:7

____________

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love. Your Brother Joe

[turtletwo]

Excellent input, everybody! READING God's Word properly is so important! (Yes, it is a seamless flow without breaks in the original scrolls... )How I wish that I knew Hebrew and Greek! I believe that richer understanding of the scriptures is definitely available to those who do so and who are blessed to have the ability to read in the original text.

With all the tools for scripture study on the internet, you'd think there would be such a thing available to use. Hey, if anyone out there happens to know of a site on the web that takes you back to the texts in their original form & breaks individual verses down from them to English, could you send me their name? Thanks.

I am also all for QUOTING scripture properly. Otherwise misunderstanding of the text and even cults can form. As pointed out, Satan's good at twisting verses!

But I sometimes will quote scripture in a shortened form (like one verse by itself or even a partial ) simply because it specifically applies to a situation, though. Is this alright to do? Because my motive is only to edify someone.

Say if they're very ill or depressed, a large portion of scripture can sometimes seem overwhelming and not even 'sink in.' Some folks like myself get 'brain fog' (so meditating and even speaking aloud even one verse can be just what is needed at that moment...)

For ex:" If someone is experiencing anxiety, "Though wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee." Isaiah 26:3 Or for insomnia ( perhaps due to worry or fear at night, when the mind can be overactive): "I will both lay me down in peace, and sleep: for thou, LORD, only makest me dwell in safety." Psalms 4:8

Since I did most of my scripture memory as a child, the Holy Spirit often brings a verse to remembrance and quickens it to my spirit. Then I will share it with someone to help them. Is that wrong? ( Many have told me they've been blessed by this...that it was "exactly what they needed to hear" on that day. For encouragement, etc.) I also know that fellow believers have done this with me and that one verse, (even the partials ) would strengthen me spiritually. Scripture is that powerful! I would appreciate your thoughts on this...

Wow, I like the 20/20 rule, Izzy! I never heard of that one before. But now that you shared it, I'll try to put it into pracice. As much as my eyes will let me. (I heard the 'Therefore to find what it is there for.' It makes good sense!)

South sounds like a wise woman, Fez. You are blessed to have her in your life, even as she is to have you in hers. But you already know that. I'd like to get to know her. I immediately thought of Psalm 19: 10 when you said, "To South I know, it is more like a mine that she, well, mines every day for gold. Then she gives away what she has mined to those who need it and goes looking for more...." That is so sweet!

Psalms 19

7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb."

See what I mean? Verse 10 fits her! Tell her I said that and hi from me.

Loved your examples, FresnoJoe! God did make an Old Covenant with His chosen people, the Hebrews. Then it was reverified or confirmed solidly and finds its fulfillment in the New Covenant ( after Jesus ascended and the Holy Ghost descended.) It did not void the Old with all its gems, but it was past this point that those newer scriptures were even written about Jesus, etc. As Joe pointed out through his quotes, they go together like a hand in a glove! Praise God! No work of art or no manmade literature could even come close to comparing to His scriptures!

I do understand what those of you mean about scripture being alive & one large flow, which seems too wonderful to be broken up into books and chapters. But I think this does come in handy when witnessing to a lost person. It helps us locate the specific verses that explain how to become a Christian.

As to quoting individual scripture verses, I hope I am not one who is guilty in this regard. Am I? If so, please let me know! Like I said, I do tend to sometimes quote just one verse or a partial one. Never meaning to pull it "out of context." But sometimes because of my eyes troubles. And I often quote off memory, which sadly is diminishing due to my disease. Yes, I can look it up on Bible Gateway, copy and paste. I often do that, actually. But realistically I have to stay within the boundries of my eye limitations. I hope you understand?

I do want to be the best contributer that I can to this site...even with my medical condition. I started a thread under the Positive Forum which unfortunately fell by the wayside. It flourished for awhile, then wilted away. It was called Encouraging Scriptures. I would love to see it revived. As I liked to say, it was a thread where God's Word was the star. The centerpiece.

And its goal was for us to lift up our brothers and sisters in sharing a verse that had significant personal meaning to us and share why. How it has touched our life. Or even just quote the scriptures and let them speak for themselves. Perhaps you can come add some to it and get the thread up and running again? I know that I will be.

But right now I must call my mom in the nursing home. She is very ill and could really use your prayers. Thanks, all. Sorry this is so long!

[Isaiah 6:8]

Turtle, there is nothing wrong with quoting a single verse to encourage or uplift. Sometimes the Lord speaks to us with but a single word of scripture. No worries my friend. What I was addressing is people, (not you) who assume they can make there theology anything they want, by simply cutting a small portion of scripture way out of context, and making it mean what they want, not what the word actually says.

I have seen some people twist the word to state that we are god, and god is us. That is twisting the word!

[joi]

Turtle, there is nothing wrong with quoting a single verse to encourage or uplift. Sometimes the Lord speaks to us with but a single word of scripture. No worries my friend. What I was addressing is people, (not you) who assume they can make there theology anything they want, by simply cutting a small portion of scripture way out of context, and making it mean what they want, not what the word actually says.

I have seen some people twist the word to state that we are god, and god is us. That is twisting the word!

I believe a good example of using verses out of context are those who think Israel and/or Jerusalem are no longer an issue with God.

[RedMomma]

I have found quite often, that people will use the Bible in a cut and paste style to prove their points. You see if you take any thing that is said or printed out of context you can make it say anything you like.

Satan even did when tempting Jesus in the wilderness. See Matthew 4:1-11

Now at times, one verse, or one chapter, may be used by the Lord to speak to us. However you should not make entire doctrines based out of one verse. Some verses are not even complete sentences. One needs to remember that the authors did not break up there books by chapters and verse, that was years later!

So how do we discern true doctrine? Well a simple way, is to use the 20/20 and the Therefore rules. They are similar to each other, and of course are not rules in the sense of you must always do it. They are more of guidelines to help with study, but its easier to say rule then guideline.

The first one is this

The Therefore rule.

When you start reading a chapter or verse in the Bible, and the sentence starts out with the word Therefore, you need to go back and read what it is there, for.

You see in English, the word therefore is a adverb. It is describing something. So if you see it, you need to look at what was said before, to fully understand the context!

The next one is this. The 20/20 rule.

As we all know 20/20 vision is perfect vision. That is where I think this phrase came from, but how you practice it is thus. Read 20 verses before and 20 verses after the verse you are studying. If you do that you will have a real clear context of what is going on with that verse and what it means!

Of course you may not be able to do this due to hitting the beginning or end of a book!

If you follow these two simple guidelines of Bible study, it will help you to really know Jesus' voice so that you may follow him more closely!

See John 10!

If anyone else has suggestions on good ways to study the word please add on!

thank you izzy this does makes sense Gbu too

[Isaiah 6:8]

I have found quite often, that people will use the Bible in a cut and paste style to prove their points. You see if you take any thing that is said or printed out of context you can make it say anything you like.

Satan even did when tempting Jesus in the wilderness. See Matthew 4:1-11

Now at times, one verse, or one chapter, may be used by the Lord to speak to us. However you should not make entire doctrines based out of one verse. Some verses are not even complete sentences. One needs to remember that the authors did not break up there books by chapters and verse, that was years later!

So how do we discern true doctrine? Well a simple way, is to use the 20/20 and the Therefore rules. They are similar to each other, and of course are not rules in the sense of you must always do it. They are more of guidelines to help with study, but its easier to say rule then guideline.

The first one is this

The Therefore rule.

When you start reading a chapter or verse in the Bible, and the sentence starts out with the word Therefore, you need to go back and read what it is there, for.

You see in English, the word therefore is a adverb. It is describing something. So if you see it, you need to look at what was said before, to fully understand the context!

The next one is this. The 20/20 rule.

As we all know 20/20 vision is perfect vision. That is where I think this phrase came from, but how you practice it is thus. Read 20 verses before and 20 verses after the verse you are studying. If you do that you will have a real clear context of what is going on with that verse and what it means!

Of course you may not be able to do this due to hitting the beginning or end of a book!

If you follow these two simple guidelines of Bible study, it will help you to really know Jesus' voice so that you may follow him more closely!

See John 10!

If anyone else has suggestions on good ways to study the word please add on!

thank you izzy this does makes sense Gbu too

Welcome.

[turtletwo]

Turtle, there is nothing wrong with quoting a single verse to encourage or uplift. Sometimes the Lord speaks to us with but a single word of scripture. No worries my friend. What I was addressing is people, (not you) who assume they can make there theology anything they want, by simply cutting a small portion of scripture way out of context, and making it mean what they want, not what the word actually says.

I have seen some people twist the word to state that we are god, and god is us. That is twisting the word!

Wow! That is very serious and twisted! We are sinners, as the hymn so well puts it. ( "Amazing Grace How sweet the sound! That saved a WRETCH like me...) While God is ...well, GOD! Perfect, holy, all the things we strive ( but will never fully arrive) to be in this life... Plus, He is the Creator and Redeemer and Lord and King of kings! Things that we'll NEVER be...even in eternity.

Thanks so much, Izzy for clarifying everything. And for reassuring me that I have nothing to worry about ( that you weren't even referring to me. ) I wish that I wasn't overly interspective and especially insecure. That's why I ask. So that I know if it is my crummy self image causing me to imagine things or what is the truth. Make sense? So hope you don't mind & patiently endure me.

But I am often a "one-verse-quoter" ( A term that I just coined )...I guess that's because that is how it works with me. Individual scriptures typically pop into my head, rather than entire portions of scripture.) Does this happen with any of you out there? Please reply, okay?

Also, still wondering if anyone knows of a Bible study tool that braks down scripture from individual words of the original text in its original language ( Hebrew, etc ) to our English. Is there any such online site? That would be easiest on my eyes and my pocketbook. Though I could slowly save up for a good physical Hebrew to English literal paper Bible. If not too heavy to hold for my weak wrists and tremors.

Would Young's Literal translation be accurate? Because I know that one is online. Or is there a better version out there? I'd appreciate any help on this, Worthy family.

It's sad. We are told to hide God's Word in our hearts that we might not sin against Him. I tried to do a lot of this, when youung and healthy. But even those verses I am getting sort of rusty on. I guess that my brain disease causes me to forget words here and there. So rather than doing a misquote of scripture or incompletely quoting, I use an internet tool like Bible Gateway, copy and paste.

I confess I was never good at memorizing exactly where the scriptures themselves are located. ( Except for a few of my very favorites, such as the one which so nicely relays the gospel...Ephesians 2:8-9 ) For some reason WHERE the verse is found at has always been a challenge to me! Including back in my younger days, when my memory was at it's sharpest. Just curious...anyone else have this issue or difficulty? Maybe I'm just weird that way...i don't know

I am grateful to the Lord that I can remember any of the words, however... because otherwise I could not even look them up through the Bible tool computer sites! ( The modern day equivalent of the trusty old...but very heavy, physical... Strong's concordance - which I could once lift and read the tiny print, before this illness befell me.)

I really do hope my lengthy pm has not killed this excellent topic and your thread, Izzy. And that YOU (and whoever else wants to) will answer some of my questions. Thanks. I love you all very much. For who you are. And for putting up with 'Rambling Rose.'here. Pardon my big mouth. But this is an interesting and vital subject, to be sure!