Ro 11:20-21

[~candice~]

What is your interpretation of this verse?

Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either!

[Guest yod]

Being arrogant towards the jewish people is a very serious offense!

Unrepentant anti-semitism will keep many people who think they are in good-standing with God out of His Kingdom.

[mizzdy]

15 For if their casting Yeshua aside means reconciliation for the world, what will their accepting him mean? It will be life from the dead! 16 Now if the hallah offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole loaf. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you - a wild olive - were grafted in among them and have become equal sharers in the rich root of the olive tree, 18 then don't boast as if you were better than the branches! However, if you do boast, remember that you are not supporting the root, the root is supporting you. 19 So you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 True, but so what? They were broken off because of their lack of trust. However, you keep your place only because of your trust. So don't be arrogant; on the contrary, be terrified! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly won't spare you! 22 So take a good look at God's kindness and his severity: on the one hand, severity toward those who fell off; but, on the other hand, God's kindness toward you - provided you maintain yourself in that kindness! Otherwise, you too will be cut off! 23 Moreover, the others, if they do not persist in their lack of trust, will be grafted in; because God is able to graft them back in.

Arrogance towards those who stood in disbelief will only cause ones heart not to be right with God. It shows a 'holier than thou' thinking, kinda like 'ha ha I took your place and God doesn't love you anymore'. We see a lot of that attitude in the way some in the churches act and treat their Jewish brethren not to mention the complete anti-semitism that runs rampant in the world today.

shalom,

Mizz

[~candice~]

I agree it's about anti-semitism. I just wonder what exactly the Lord means here by being broken off --- from His kingdom, from salvation, from promises? What is the consequence of being broken off? I do not believe our Lord makes idle threats.

[mizzdy]

I agree it's about anti-semitism. I just wonder what exactly the Lord means here by being broken off --- from His kingdom, from salvation, from promises? What is the consequence of being broken off? I do not believe our Lord makes idle threats.

They are broken off until they come to the truth that He is the promised Messiah. Those who were broken off didn't have faith in His words the very words they based their teachings on! they put their own words above His and decided for themselves. God says that one day they will be grafted back into their tree but only if they come to trust in His whole words, when they know Yeshua and confess His name. That is the only way to the Father is to go through the Son first. If they do not come to that they will be cut off from Him forever just like any gentile that does not make that confession and is grafted into that tree. Nope YHWH does not make idle threats, we must be thankful His patience is long! and He brings His plans together in His time and not in ours!

shalom,

Mizz

[~candice~]

I agree it's about anti-semitism. I just wonder what exactly the Lord means here by being broken off --- from His kingdom, from salvation, from promises? What is the consequence of being broken off? I do not believe our Lord makes idle threats.

They are broken off until they come to the truth that He is the promised Messiah. Those who were broken off didn't have faith in His words the very words they based their teachings on! they put their own words above His and decided for themselves. God says that one day they will be grafted back into their tree but only if they come to trust in His whole words, when they know Yeshua and confess His name. That is the only way to the Father is to go through the Son first. If they do not come to that they will be cut off from Him forever just like any gentile that does not make that confession and is grafted into that tree. Nope YHWH does not make idle threats, we must be thankful His patience is long! and He brings His plans together in His time and not in ours!

shalom,

Mizz

Right, but I'm not talking about natural branches being broken off. I'm talking about the warning to gentiles grafted in, that they might also be cut off.

[Smalcald]

Its about faith.

Without faith we will also be broken off also and left. Here God is saying look I didn't even spare my chosen people because of their lack of faith in My Son. So you who have faith only because of my Grace not because of ANYTHING you did, should hold this precious faith with fear and not boast particularly against my chosen people.

[Guest yod]

Its about faith.

Without faith we will also be broken off also and left. Here God is saying look I didn't even spare my chosen people because of their lack of faith in My Son. So you who have faith only because of my Grace not because of ANYTHING you did, should hold this precious faith with fear and not boast particularly against my chosen people.

No, it's in the middle of a passage about Israel being set aside for a season and the relationship between the Gentiles and the Jewish people are the subject and purpose of the chapter. It is a warning about anti-semitism that supersessionists (replacement theology) had better heed.

It has to do with "faith" only in the fact that Paul is saying we need to trust that God still has a glorious plan for the salvation of Israel/Jews. This particular verse is meant to inform those who would oppose that plan about their sure damnation.

[Isaiah 6:8]

How can you hold on to something if you have nothing to do with attaining or maintaining it?

I think this is the hurdle that you run in to if you hold a salvation by faith alone view.

What do you think?

I know you were not asking me, but if you don't mind I have an answer from scripture. I'll sum it up first. We are saved by grace alone, no good works will do it. However, we show our faith by our works. But our works do not save us.

The scripture backing up by grace alone

Ephesians 2

New King James Version (NKJV)

By Grace Through Faith

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

New King James Version (NKJV)

Romans 4

Abraham Justified by Faith

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

And whose sins are covered;

8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

But how do we show that we have accepted the grace by faith? By our works, we show it.

James 2:14-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

New King James Version (NKJV)

Hebrews 11

By Faith We Understand

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Faith at the Dawn of History

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”;[a] for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Faithful Abraham

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

Its interesting as in Hebrews 11 shows, they had faith, and they showed it through there works.

This story shows the point very clearly.

Over 100 years ago, a French tightrope walker named Blondin walked across Niagara Falls in front of a crowd of 100,000 people. He then asked the crowd this question, "Do you believe I can walk across these falls with a man on my back?" The whole crowd cheered, "Yes, we believe!" He then retorted, "Then who wants to get on my back?" Needless to say, no one raised his hand. Blondin's manager then climbed aboard his back and made the harrowing journey across the Falls.

Man people believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, but are unwilling to completely trust Him with their lives. Faith means we completely trust.

http://are-you-going.com/page-17b.html

You see simple belief is one thing, but true faith, is stepping out, and trusting God to carry you across. The works is getting up on the shoulders proving that you trust him.

You are right, simple belief does not save you, but having faith enough to get on Gods shoulders and letting him carry you does.

[joi]

Its about faith.

Without faith we will also be broken off also and left. Here God is saying look I didn't even spare my chosen people because of their lack of faith in My Son. So you who have faith only because of my Grace not because of ANYTHING you did, should hold this precious faith with fear and not boast particularly against my chosen people.

How can you hold on to something if you have nothing to do with attaining or maintaining it?

I think this is the hurdle that you run in to if you hold a salvation by faith alone view.

What do you think?

I think it is He who holds on to us, not the other way round. ; )

His Word says in Ephesians 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is unmerited favor to us from God and is a part of the gift of salvation to us through Christ. The other part is the faith He gives us to accept the fact this Jesus is the uniquely born Son of God whom we either accept or reject. Acceptance or rejection is the part we supply, as I see it.