Guest shiloh357 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I believe this thesis is fundamentally flawed. But first I must point out that I am a 'meat and potatoes' man. This has nothing to do with me being Irish (although I do love my spuds). What I mean is, I have to see something written in black and white in Scripture, and it has to be as clear as day to me before I will allow it. That is, give me chapter and verse on any topic, before I will accept it as gospel, as it were. Thus everything I will promote here is backed up by Scripture. The problem is that this claim isn't really true. He has to depart from Scripture into the book of Enoch. His case relies on sources outside of Scripture. That is the author's first error. To begin; the Nephilim are NOT the giants who were the offspring of the fallen angels. 'Nephilim' is a Hebrew word derived from 'nephal' meaning 'to fall'. Thus 'nephilim' literally means 'the fallen ones'. The majority of Hebrew scholars will vouch for this. That is correct, but there is more to it than that. Fallen from what? The assumption is that they are fallen angels, having fallen from heaven. But the text does not say as much. So to argue that the "fallen ones" MUST be the fallen angels is both arbitrary and conectural. The word naphal depending on its form (QAL, HIPHIL, HITHPAEL, PILEL) can refer to falling in battle, to fall upon in a violent attack, to fall short, to fall prostrate, to waste away, to overthrow, to fail, to cause to fail, and so on. The word "nephilliim" is used in only two verses of Scripture. Gen. 6:4 and Number 13:33. In Numb. 13:33, it is used to refer to human beings of great stature. So we have two different contexts and two different usages of the same word. The word usage in Gen. 6:4 is unique to this verse and this verse alone. There is nothing in this verse by itself to support the assertion that it is referring to fallen angels. So when Genesis 6 says, "the Nephilim were on the earth in those days", it is referring to the fallen angels themselves. No, not necessarily. That is a weak assumption based on an unsupported premise. Not to giants which is a different word entirely in Hebrew. Not exactly true. Words often play double duty in Hebrew. One word in Hebrew can have a variety meanings and usages. The word nephillim in Hebrew is used of physical men of great (giant) stature in Numb. 13:33. Moreover the word "giant" is a relative term. The spies in Numbers used the word in a hyberbolic sense to describe height of the Canaanites. To prove this point, I will briefly give you several phrases from Scripture which talk of angels coming to earth from Heaven: None of which are material here because it has not been established from Scripture that Gen. 6:4 is really talking about fallen angels. According to the Book of Enoch, these 200 fallen angels descended on Mount Hermon in the days of Jared. Jared was born circa 1,200 years prior to the Flood. Thus, these evil spirit men were on earth mating with human women for perhaps 1,000 years or so before the Flood of Noah. It is plain to see why the whole population of the world, perhaps 20 or 30 million according to some scholars, were all infected in their DNA by these beings by the time the deluge swamped the earth. Only Noah and his family were not corrupted by the evil that pervaded the land at that time. I find it startling and unfortunate that the book of Enoch is being accepted here with nearly the same authority as Scripture. It shows the biblical weakness of his position seeing has to depart from biblical revelation to support his view. So now you know why so many of the movies we see now are mystical, magical, paranormal spectacles with aliens and ET's and witches and vampires and zombies. Many of the TV programmes are the same featuring UFO's and abductions and beautiful spirit men and women coming to earth to help mankind survive all the trouble that now face humanity. Books such as Harry Potter and Twilight advertise the same message. Why is this? Because the whole population of the world is being conditioned and brainwashed and prepped in readiness for the soon appearing and manifestation of these devils and unclean spirits and doleful creatures in plain sight and full view on planet earth. Now you know why the UN has an ambassador, Ms. Mazlan Othman, who is the 'UN Diplomat for Aliens' in the 'Office for Outer Space affairs'. This is why Dr. Guy Consolmagno, the Pope's astronomer says; of course there are aliens out there. But they are benign and their creator is the same God that created us. And when they arrive, Dr. Guy is willing to baptize them, should they want to be baptized. This is why some schools kids in the UK are receiving instructions in what to do should a UFO happen to crash-land in the school yard. Oh please... I should have known that UFOs and extra-terrestrials would find its way into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2011 This is the wackiest thing I've read all week. As was the times of Noah simply refers to the widespread sinfulness of man, bar the remnant. They were happily going about their lives without care or concern for the Lord, and were caught by surprise in the chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,171 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,900 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2011 200 fallen angels? I was of the impression that 1/3 of the heavenly angels followed Satan? A lady I know said she thinks the fallen angels are being identified as UFO's today. Never quiet know what to make of that statement. .... and just what do you think will happen when those 1/3rd are kicked out of heaven and sent down here. How many angels will 1/3rd of them be..... that 200 is nothing, they are simply the ones that left their normal place and came here to be with Adam's daughters...... and besides, that 200 will never be released until judgement day. what comes out of the bottomless pit is not these 200 fallen angels. They are in Tartaroo and will be chained there until judgement day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Shiloh357, I have much respect for you as I see from many of your posts that you have a lot of knowledge of the Word, but I have to disagree with your view in this matter. Looking into these things as I have been for the past couple months, I can not just discount them so easily anymore. The Bible plainly tells us that there are angels that sinned being held in chains, reserved unto judgement. 2 Peter 2:4,5~For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement; and spared not the old(ancient) world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; I believe these angels are different ones than satan & his angels as it is my understanding that satan & a bunch of principalities & powers are in control of the world at this time.(at least what control they are given at present) Anyway, satan & his bunch are not being held in chains, so just what sin did the others commit that got them locked up? I believe they are the 'sons of God' that took the daughters of men & created giant offspring as recorded in Genesis 6. I know that some say that the sons of God in Gen 6 were the descendants of Seth & they were not supposed to mate with the other descendants of Adam. It doesn't make sense that when they did, they would have abnormal children. After all, they were ALL descendants of Adam. Seed brings forth after its own kind. Mixed seed would bring about mutants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted July 18, 2011 200 fallen angels? I was of the impression that 1/3 of the heavenly angels followed Satan? A lady I know said she thinks the fallen angels are being identified as UFO's today. Never quiet know what to make of that statement. .... and just what do you think will happen when those 1/3rd are kicked out of heaven and sent down here. How many angels will 1/3rd of them be..... that 200 is nothing, they are simply the ones that left their normal place and came here to be with Adam's daughters...... and besides, that 200 will never be released until judgement day. what comes out of the bottomless pit is not these 200 fallen angels. They are in Tartarus and will be chained there until judgement day. I see you got this in before my other post. I have got to learn to type faster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j102 Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 443 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2011 As i see it, this is all wack for the most part. first of all it says in new testiment scripture to not entertain peoples notion's of things which distract people from god, rather than edifying and bringing them closer to jesus.......so truthfully and scripturly we have to avoid and ignore such talk about nephillum human/angle hybrids and things like that. "let god be true and everyman a liar" 1st timothy chap 1 vrs 3-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 The Bible plainly tells us that there are angels that sinned being held in chains, reserved unto judgement. 2 Peter 2:4,5~For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement; and spared not the old(ancient) world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; I believe these angels are different ones than satan & his angels as it is my understanding that satan & a bunch of principalities & powers are in control of the world at this time.(at least what control they are given at present) Anyway, satan & his bunch are not being held in chains, so just what sin did the others commit that got them locked up? I believe they are the 'sons of God' that took the daughters of men & created giant offspring as recorded in Genesis 6. I know that some say that the sons of God in Gen 6 were the descendants of Seth & they were not supposed to mate with the other descendants of Adam. It doesn't make sense that when they did, they would have abnormal children. After all, they were ALL descendants of Adam. Seed brings forth after its own kind. Mixed seed would bring about mutants. Well the problem is that much of this is based on assumption. When you have basicaly four verses out of Genesis, you have to work within the parameter of what is revealed. Nothing in that passage says that angels had anything do with any of what is described in those events. Angels are being read into the text with absolutely NO justification from the text. Here is the big hermeneutic problem. You have angels being alleged by the term "sons of god." You have angels being alleged by the term nephillim. That makes Gen. 6:4 read like this: There were fallen angels in the earth in those days; and also after that, when angels came in unto the daughters of men. Neither "sons of god" or "nephillim" refer to angels according to any text we have in Scripture. "Sons of god," was a common ancient near eastern phrase used by the pagans to refer to their kings. Their kings were seen as descended from the gods. Nephillim is better translated as "tyrants," rather than "giants." Nephillim as a noun would correspond to the Hebrew QAL form of naphal relating to those who "fall upon" others in a violent attack. That would go further in explaining the need for God to judge the world. What you have being described in Genesis 6 is pagan kings who take unto themselves at will any woman they choose. They recognize no limit on their sexual appetite. In all likelihood, what is being described is a behavioral paradigm. It not only applied to their sexual appetite but would have characterized their entire reign. At the same time you had also had nephillim, men who had no sense of justice and spread bloodshed and violence upon anyone too weak to oppose them. The Jameison, Fausset and Brown commentary puts it quite well: Gen 6:4 giants — The term in Hebrew implies not so much the idea of great stature as of reckless ferocity, impious and daring characters, who spread devastation and carnage far and wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,171 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,900 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2011 every civilization that has a recorded history speaks of beings higher than humans coming here and having children with humans and pretty much trying to rule planet earth..... From old Babyl, Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks Romans, Chinese, Mayans, Aztec's Navajo and even the Cherokee's speak of these entities. So why should it be any different that the Hebrew writings would mention them. does it matter...... It really depends on what the Word is speaking of when it tells us that at the end times, it would be just as it was in the days of Noah. It goes on to speak of being married and such and so it will depend on whether or not it is only speaking of giving in marriage or if it really goes further and speaks of all the other things happening prior to the flood. Like a lot of things, it's open for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Shiloh,we will just have to agree to disagree my brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 18, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,171 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,900 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2011 i might also add that if you have the Holy Spirit dewlling with you and you keep a good relation with him, it really won't matter whether or not all those angels come here, and or it does become just like it was before the flood..... If you have the Lord in your life either way is ok..... it is a big deal, but so is our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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