nebula Posted July 27, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Every lexicon I have says it's Lucifer, light bringer, light bearer or such. "Lucifer" is Latin. From what is presented in the Hebrew, where does the "bringer" and "bearer" come from? And how does this become a name? And are you certain "shine" (light) is the correct application of the word? How do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 27, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Lucifer before the fall then Satan, devil and in Revelation Apollyon/Abaddon I agree. His nature changed and his office did too, so too his name. But what about what the Hebrew says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted July 27, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2011 Lucifer before the fall then Satan, devil and in Revelation Apollyon/Abaddon I agree. His nature changed and his office did too, so too his name. But what about what the Hebrew says? Here's strongs; 1966. heylel Search for H1966 in KJVSL llyh heylel hay-lale' from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:--lucifer. See Hebrew 1984 1984; 1984. halal Search for H1984 in KJVSL llh halal haw-lal' a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:--(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(- ish, -ly), glory, give (light), be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, (sing, be worthy of) praise, rage, renowned, shine. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted July 27, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I don't think they are the same either. I think it is interesting that one of the meanings of Lucifer is morning star. I believe it refers to Adam,as the son of God, before 'the fall'. Jesus,the Son of God, calls Himself the "bright and morning star" in Rev 22:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted July 27, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2011 Lucifer was star of the morning, not Morning Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted July 27, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2011 I don't think they are the same either. I think it is interesting that one of the meanings of Lucifer is morning star. I believe it refers to Adam,as the son of God, before 'the fall'. Jesus,the Son of God, calls Himself the "bright and morning star" in Rev 22:16 The problem is that the portion of scriopure that is mentioned. Wherein is the only mention of the translation, Lucifer. Is referring to the King of Babylon and ultimately the anti-Christ which is the embodiment of satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 29, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Lucifer before the fall then Satan, devil and in Revelation Apollyon/Abaddon I agree. His nature changed and his office did too, so too his name. But what about what the Hebrew says? Here's strongs; 1966. heylel Search for H1966 in KJVSL llyh heylel hay-lale' from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:--lucifer. See Hebrew 1984 1984; 1984. halal Search for H1984 in KJVSL llh halal haw-lal' a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:--(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(- ish, -ly), glory, give (light), be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, (sing, be worthy of) praise, rage, renowned, shine. Seems pretty straight forward to me. No that isn't. Strong's merely presents how a word has been translated. It doesn't explain why a word is translated as it is. How did 'heylel' become "light-bearer" (what "Lucifer" means in Latin)? The root word of 'halel' hasn't even been translated as "light". This source translates 'heylel' as "star" or "shining one" And why is this Latin [mis]transliterated word treated as a name? What if Benshachar (Son of the dawn) is the original name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted July 29, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2011 Lucifer before the fall then Satan, devil and in Revelation Apollyon/Abaddon I agree. His nature changed and his office did too, so too his name. But what about what the Hebrew says? Here's strongs; 1966. heylel Search for H1966 in KJVSL llyh heylel hay-lale' from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:--lucifer. See Hebrew 1984 1984; 1984. halal Search for H1984 in KJVSL llh halal haw-lal' a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:--(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(- ish, -ly), glory, give (light), be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, (sing, be worthy of) praise, rage, renowned, shine. Seems pretty straight forward to me. No that isn't. Strong's merely presents how a word has been translated. It doesn't explain why a word is translated as it is. How did 'heylel' become "light-bearer" (what "Lucifer" means in Latin)? The root word of 'halel' hasn't even been translated as "light". This source translates 'heylel' as "star" or "shining one" And why is this Latin [mis]transliterated word treated as a name? What if Benshachar (Son of the dawn) is the original name? The above translation does in fact say that halal translates, "to shine." a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; I'm willing to listen to your supposition though sis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted July 29, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2011 I looked at your link and I'm still not seeing the difference between Lucifer and Star Benshachar. Either way it means shining one or morning star appointed to the dawn. satan when he was named Lucifer was the covering Cherub. he was appointed to it. However, he fell and so too his nature changed. I'm thinking of a classic literary and modern motion picture adaptation. That adaptation would be Smeagol and Gollum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted July 29, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 There is the apocryphal book of Enoch which implies that the angel who caused others to fall is Semyaza. I don't give much credence to it, but I still have not found anything that leads me to believe that Heylal/Lucifer and Satan are the same individual. By the way, Satan has never had anything but an evil nature. He was created for the purpose of being evil. The first time we see him in Scripture, he's living up to his purpose by corrupting Adam and Hawwah (Eve) against the way of the LORD. I have never in Scripture seen Satan do anything but evil. Can anyone show in Scripture where Satan has ever done good (unless the purpose of his good was to disguise evil in some way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts