Denominations?

[Guest]

He is alive and well in his Church and will continue to be....

Well Boast Not Beloved, For The LORD Jesus Says

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

To The Church

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:21-22

Dear One, Can You Guess Why Jesus Says This To The Church

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Revelation 3:15-19

Hummm....

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

[nebula]

The ones you mentioned are good (although I'm still getting used to "the Newsboys" not having an Aussie accent!). Of the newest artists, I've gotten into Misty Edwards, Rick Pino, Jesus Culture and the like more than the mainstream Christian artists.

I'm not familiar with any of those three. What style of music are they?

Best to let you listen:

Misty Edwards

Rick Pino

Jesus Culture

[stacey c]

Randy Stonehill had one good album then got steadily flakier. I prefer Larry Norman.

Phil Keaggy is an incredible guitar player but he usually has about 1 good song per album. I like several newer bands better than any of these, including the Newsboys, Brandon Heath, and Matt Mahrer.

What do you think if these guys?

I was trying to bring up bands and musicians from their era.

I was an 80's teen, so the 80's Christian music is still my favorite.

The ones you mentioned are good (although I'm still getting used to "the Newsboys" not having an Aussie accent!). Of the newest artists, I've gotten into Misty Edwards, Rick Pino, Jesus Culture and the like more than the mainstream Christian artists.

I do like Petra, the Newsboys, Steven Curtis Chapman, MercyMe

But some of my favs. are Kirk Franklin, and for awesome worship, Karen Wheaton

Two more I'm not familiar with. I'll have to check them out. If an artist is relatively new and they're not played on K-LOVE I probably haven't heard them.

Do you mean Kirk Franklin and Karen Wheaton? They've been around for a long time. I don't know how to put links on here, but look them up, I find them to be a blessing.

God bless stacey c

[Gerioke]

I watched Pink Floyd's old movie The Wall the other night.

Heretic!!!

All true Christians like the Eagles better!

There was some great music that came out of the early 80s though.

Mark me down as being in the true Christians group........ the Eagles Rock.... Second Begees...

I guess I'm a fence stradler, I like them both

I grew up on "old time rock'n'roll", but early 80s saw me getting into a lot of New Wave and Alternative. While I still love the Eagles and Floyd, when I think of the 80s I think more of Depeche Mode and the Smiths.

"Why should the devil have all the good music?"

You all should listen to Randy Stonehill, classic Petra, Phil Keaggy, and the like.

We have similar tastes in music

[Fez]

Misty Edwards

Rick Pino

Jesus Culture

After a quick listen to the first songs of each I can tell that I will like all three of these bands. Good songwriting, production, and vocals.

I love Jesus Cultre they originate from Bethal Church and are the worship group. One of the most prophetic, Jesus loving charismatic churches on the planet! This church sees miracles occurring on a regular basis. The lead singer Kim walker, has an amazing voice!

[OneLight]

Wow, an unnoticed hijack in progress ...

[Dragoon]

I watched Pink Floyd's old movie The Wall the other night.

Heretic!!!

All true Christians like the Eagles better!

There was some great music that came out of the early 80s though.

Mark me down as being in the true Christians group........ the Eagles Rock.... Second Begees...

I guess I'm a fence stradler, I like them both

I grew up on "old time rock'n'roll", but early 80s saw me getting into a lot of New Wave and Alternative. While I still love the Eagles and Floyd, when I think of the 80s I think more of Depeche Mode and the Smiths.

"Why should the devil have all the good music?"

You all should listen to Randy Stonehill, classic Petra, Phil Keaggy, and the like.

Thanks Nebula,

Since coming to Christ, I've been pleasantly surprised with how good a lot of Christian music is.

My favourite bands at the moment are Selah and Glenn Kaiser.

I'll be sure to look into the groups you mentioned

[OneLight]

Shouldn't this discussion be split and moved to the Music forum?

[Dragoon]

Its nice that Ignatius understands this the way the Roman Catholicism does. I'm comfortable trusting in what scripture actually says though.

You deny what scripture says.

Ignatius learned the gospel from John.

John quoted Jesus as saying:

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Ignatius said this regarding the gnostics(protestants of the time):

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

Here's what Paul said:

1 Cor 11

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

And finally, here's what Martin Luther said:

"Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.

Surely, it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous.”

–Luther’s Collected Works, Wittenburg Edition, no. 7 p, 391

Gnostics are not protestants you deceptive git

I posted scripture that contradicts your views and that of the Roman Catholic church. I suggest you deal with that before you accuse others of denying scripture.

You quote 1 Cor 11:27-29. You leave out verses 30-31, which add clarity to this passage.

That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. (1 Cor 11:30-31)

The passage you quote clearly refers to the 'bread and drink', demonstrating that that is what they are... bread and drink. It even discusses getting drunk from it, which one does not become from blood! Here in verse 31, it elaborates on the 'discernment' mentioned in verse 29. When we eat and drink the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner (which is discussed in verses 17-22 and 33-34), we drink judgement upon ourselves because we do this in remembrance of Christ... which is what 1 Corinthians says twice in verses 24 and 26.

You still seem to think that posting the views of men trump what scripture says.

It doesn't matter whether it is St Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luthor or Billy Graham. These are all men. All men are fallible... even those who were taught by John.

It may surprise you, but Martin Luthor is not my God.

------

I've asked you several questions which you've ignored. Please allow me to repost some of them.

1) When the curtain in the temple was torn in two at Jesus' crucifixion, what do you think that signified?

2) Where men's views differ from scripture, which do you lean towards? Do you place man before God's Word, or God's Word above all?

3) Do these responses actually matter to you, or do you simply jump to your next point of argument?

4) Do you care about who God truly is, or are you committed to the Roman Catholic Church despite any scripture or logic?

Gnostics are protestants to the extent that they rejected the Church and followed their own teachings. I recognize that they are not part of the movement that started with the Reformation.

1) The transformation of the Old Covenant.

2) Men's views differ regarding what scripture says. Which men do you listen to?

3)Of course they matter, although often they are juvenile and ignorant. I try to answer the relevant points.

4)Of course, which is why I am Catholic. I was born again in a Baptist Church and raised in small, consertave, bible based Methodist Church. I accept the Catholic Church as true because that is God's will for all of us.

The Gnostics were a heresy whose views are spoken against in scripture. The Protestants were a group seeking to return to scripture from the abuses and additions of the Roman Church. You merely lower my opinion of your views with such slander.

Dragoon's Question

1) When the curtain in the temple was torn in two at Jesus' crucifixion, what do you think that signified?

Chesterton's Answer

1) The transformation of the Old Covenant.

Follow Up:

So what exactly do you think it transformed into? What did the curtain signify, and why was it torn?

Dragoon's Question

2) Where men's views differ from scripture, which do you lean towards? Do you place man before God's Word, or God's Word above all?

Chesterton's Answer

2) Men's views differ regarding what scripture says. Which men do you listen to?

Follow Up:

Please answer the question. Where men's views differ from scripture, which do you lean towards?

Dragoon's Question

3) Do these responses actually matter to you, or do you simply jump to your next point of argument?

Chesterton's Answer

3)Of course they matter, although often they are juvenile and ignorant. I try to answer the relevant points.

Follow Up:

Then why do you ignore points which contradict your views and jump to the same repetitive points?

Dragoon's Question

4) Do you care about who God truly is, or are you committed to the Roman Catholic Church despite any scripture or logic?

Chesterton's Answer

4)Of course, which is why I am Catholic. I was born again in a Baptist Church and raised in small, consertave, bible based Methodist Church. I accept the Catholic Church as true because that is God's will for all of us.

Follow Up:

Which church you belonged to has very little to do with faith. Your relationship to God is the issue.

You also fail to answer the second half of the question;

...are you committed to the Roman Catholic Church despite any scripture or logic?

[Dragoon]

The Catholic church was the first christian business. Big money in false idols and graven images

Those are empty words.

Study the early Christians and you will find the Catholic Church.

That's too bad.

When I read about the early church, I'm looking to find God.

And you will!

He is alive and well in his Church and will continue to be.

He is.

But His church is not confined to a denomination, nor is it headed by anyone but Jesus Christ.