apothanein kerdos Posted October 2, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 2, 2004 How many people ever actually went into a JW service ???? Actually read , not what someone else said, but actually read the Book of Mormon. Let me point you to my post don't know if I'd label JW's as a cult...definately a false religion and not Christianity, but not a cult. Of course, this depends upon what definition of a cult you're working on...I'd have no problem saying it's a cult if the proper definition was put forth, but oh well, it's just a matter of semantics. Regardless, JW's are not Christians nor saved by the blood of the Lamb. While this seems like a harsh sounding judgement that is uncalled for, when comparing their beliefs to the actual Bible, it's difficult to see how they could truly be saved in their present state. For instance, JW's deny the Trinity (Let God be True, p. 100-101; Make Sure of All Things, p.386) and likewise deny the deity of Christ (Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 306) and in fact believe that Jesus was God's first Creation and was the incarnate Michael the Arch Angel (Aid to Bible Understanding, pp. 390-391; The Watchtower, May 15, 1963, p. 307; The New World, 2849). They even go so far as to say that John 1:1 is interpretated incorrectly and should read, "In the beginning was the word and the word was A god." Thus, they strip Jesus (the Word) away of His deity in all aspects. When their beliefs are unorthodox on main issues in Christianity and on main doctrines that concern salvation, it's imporant to take issue. Let's look to their faulty translation first, and then see how they line up with scripture. First, with the translation of "the word was a god". In the Greek it reads: Theos en ha logos (transliterated). When translated literally into English it means "God was the word". Now, Jehovah witnesses attempt to say that there is no definite article in this writing thus the word "a" should be used when translating. This is simply faulty translation. In a sentence with a predicate moninative you will know which substantive is the subject by the presence of the artcle. Thus, there has to be an article in every Greek sentence. If there isn't a "stand-alone" article, then it is automatically built into the Greek word itself. Thus, since logos has the article, it is the subject. Now, can Theos, because it is absent of an article, justifiably be translated with an "a" in front of it? No. If it had an article then it would simply be translated "the person of God". By ridding itself of an article it solidifies the stance that it is refering to THE God. Thus, to put an "a" in this sentence is to defy all known modes of Greek grammar. Secondly, we know from the Bible that Jesus was God. Jesus was both God and man (Col. 2:9; John 8:58 with Ex. 3:14). We have to recognize that Jesus is God from the scriptures ( John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8). Why is this important? Jesus said here that if you do not believe "that I am" you will die in your sins. In Greek I am is 'ego eimi,' which means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted October 2, 2004 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,774 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,465 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted October 2, 2004 How to witness to a JW -- show them that Jesus is JHVH! (Jehovah, but in Hebrew they don't even pronounce the name of God) Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. LORD in all caps is JHVH! Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. So Jesus tries the hearts and reins -- JHVH tries the hearts and reins! So they are one in the same! Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. JHVH is the first and the last! Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Jesus is the first and the last! So JHVH and Jesus are one in the same! Those verses are nearly the same in their JW Bibles! Your brother in Christ with much agape love, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GymRose Posted October 2, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 862 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 2, 2004 As I read many of the comments and perhaps down right hate filled comments from those that should realise we will never change someone to Christ is we attact them. We have to show them a better way, and honestly most Christians today are not doing a good job of that. We talk about the JW or the Church of Jesus Chrsit of Latter Day Saints ( heck we don't even like to use thier real name) we attack the flaws in thier religions without ever taking time to see some of the good they also teach. If we take it from the good points and show them something better, would not most peeople want the better. If you merely tell them they are wrong, and do it in bitter tones, how will that ever attact anyone. Even Christians. I visited one of the other boards, and saw where the discussion was keeping the head covered for women in church. The almost complete agreement was that people were free to choice how they followed Christ. This has been the trouble for 1000 years, people have chosen thier own paths, declaring they are free from doing things as the New Testement declares. They want to pick and choose which part of the New Testement, they want to follow. Or they will pick one verse over another verse as being more important. And of course worst of all, take the verse at face value as to how it is used in todays English without looking how it is used correctly in the orginal langauge. How can we ever show the JW or the CJCLS, the correct method of Christianity, if we as Christians can not even descide amoung ourself, or even worship together. We locally try to have some joint services, and at one month a year, a visit, where people from all the downtown churches visit the church of other groups on a Thursday at noon. Well guess what, certain denomnations will not go to other churches because 1. Some use music instruments ( surely of the devil) 2. Others speak in touges ( surely of the devil) 3. Others have statues of saints ( of the devil) 3. Some have women ministers ( of the devil) 4. Another allows homosexuals into the church ( of the devil) Get the idea, it is easy to set back and declare someone we learn about fom other hate forums, or believe everything we read on web sites of hate. How many people ever actually went into a JW service ???? Actually read , not what someone else said, but actually read the Book of Mormon. I would say that in many ways, most denominations have about as much bad to say about other christian goups as they do these groups also. I am saying, why should we talk like a bunch of old "wash women" about someone else, let us show them by example what Christian love and being a Chrsitian is all about. To them, they believe they have something better than we have. And to be perfectly honest, I would find some of the teachings and acceptance in some so called Christian churches much worst than that of some of the cultss Look perhaps not at thier doctrine for a moment, but at thier "works" I would say that those cults are acting, at least to the outside world, as much better Chrsitians than almost any of the christian churches, in their teachings on family, good works, helping one another. This does not of course save them, or even justify them, But it does show that we as Christians will have to work very, very hard to show them a better way of life than what we are doing in the world today, and esp on this board. Amen to all that. We do the thing with all the different churches in our area getting together too and it is amazing how different groups with different ways of worshiping the same God can come together and worship as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idied2 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 AMEN George How to witness to a JW -- show them that Jesus is JHVH! (Jehovah, but in Hebrew they don't even pronounce the name of God) Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. LORD in all caps is JHVH! Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. So Jesus tries the hearts and reins -- JHVH tries the hearts and reins! So they are one in the same! Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. JHVH is the first and the last! Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Jesus is the first and the last! So JHVH and Jesus are one in the same! Those verses are nearly the same in their JW Bibles! Your brother in Christ with much agape love, George AMEN In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted October 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 21 Topic Count: 129 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 483 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2004 Wow, what judgment... (not from all) all christian groups have wrong teachings in them and all of them have at least one thing right..... the witnesses are not perfect and neither are you...but I do believe that God has worked through them. I am not saying he is now. Alot of Bible truths have been revealed by their group. I believe we should all study the Bible and agree on just one thing. Jesus said the two greatest commandments were what???? Let's work on those and stop nit picking all of the other topics... Agape, Traci "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." ---1 John 4:1 Christian denominations can differ in opinion on interpretations of non-essential issues (see Romans 14) but they agree on essential issues (only Jesus... the Jesus of the Holy Bible saves). The JW's are not a Christian denomination... they preach a different Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible is not the same jesus that JW's are taught to believe in. They believe Jesus is "a god" but not "God..." they believe before Christ came to earth that He was the created archangel, Michael and became the Messiah at His baptism, etc. See who they say Christ is. And who you say He is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idied2 Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 the witnesses are not perfect and neither are you...but I do believe that God has worked through them. Just be careful how HE is working through who. Ro 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coral Snake Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 And that's another thing, JWs have yet to explain how Jesus can be Michael the Archangel when the Book of Revelation CLEARLY shows Michael and the Lamb (Jesus) are distinct and separate persons even in their corrupted New World Translation of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted October 5, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2004 The Jehovah's False Witnesses plan of salvation is a plan of damnation. Even their very founder, Pittsburgh haberdasher, Charles Taze Russell, died divorced from his dear wife! If, as Paul warned in 1 Timothy 3:5, the man who can't lead in his own house should not try to be leading the house of God, WHERE does THAT leave Charles Taze R.? Thank you, Lord Jesus, for Your eternal truth as laid down in the Holy Bible which serves to guard against false cultists who wrestle Scripture "to their own destruction." http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnabas Posted October 8, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/11/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2004 "...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion; and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect; but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality. So does that make evolution a religion? A Christian is someone who believes Jesus is God, died and rose from the dead and confesses Jesus as Lord. JW do not believe that Jesus is God. There is no other way to the father, except through belief in the son. There's no other name in which people can be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkilletRocksMyFace Posted October 20, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 121 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1983 Share Posted October 20, 2004 WHOAH! Coral Snake, take it easy. Have you ever seen the movie Star Trec First Contact....Captin Pacard was personally hurt by what the Borg did to him, so now he was on a mission to hurt them back. .. Look man, I dig the fact that you want to "defend the faith" but you never had the right to be judgemental. Christ was sometimes blunt and judgemental (because he had that authority from his father) You don't have that authority. Just because you were in a "cult" before, does not give you the right to come all out like this and shoot off your knowledge to "expose false teaching" There are better ways to express yourself than this. Try Christain love, try showing some respect and try actually hearing people out, you'll find that you can get to know people and help them better if you give them the light of day first. peace. p.s. do they actually delete JW's posts here? WHY? I think it would be benificail for people to read what they preach to get a good understanding of how to deal with it (Yes I disagree strongly with JW's but I still would like to hear them out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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