Why I Left

[stormy612]

If you say "church" to me, I'll say "power hungry, prideful hypocrites"; you say "parents" to me, I'll say "liars"; you say "friend" to me, I'll say "backstabber"; you say "teacher", I'll say "master manipulator". I don't possess "normal" associations with the "good things of God" so telling me these things are "good for me" only makes me see you as "one of them."

Ok then sorry to start off this way, but i believe in the truth, and telling it as it is (from my perspective)

In the quote above you have taken a lot of things I hold close to my heart, and made me "one of them" before we start.

We can talk and I suppose we will, but you need to know that...

Church is center to my life

I loved both my parents and although they are gone, still do

I have many really good friends I can trust with my life

I have some awesome teachers in the church, who are also friends.

That being said, I know we all come from a different perspective in our walk, yours and mine just happen to differ greatly.

That does not mean we cannot discuss things, as long as we keep as our foundation scripture, because only there lies the real truth.

Blessings

Of course we can talk. I don't condemn others for finding joy and comfort in those things. God intended church to be just that. I just meant that because my associations with those things are so negative, trying to comfort me with those things won't work. I'm always told to "go to church". That seems to be the universal answer for someone who is lonely. But I'm lonely because of how people have treated me. I don't want to be around rejection anymore. That's the part people aren't understanding and don't seem to want to understand. You can't heal a sick person who's allergic to penicillan with penicillan. When I say "one of them" I mean someone unwilling to step outside of their perspective to see things from another point of view; someone determined to get me to always see things from their point of view. Church is healing for you. It isn't for me. Its a source of pain. You can't change my history with that. If you can understand that, then there is hope. I'm willing to hear why church has been good for you. What do you do that makes it good for others? What do they do that makes it good for you? I can handle people disagreeing with me. I can understand that. What I can't understand is why, after a disagreement, they don't continue with me? Why don't they talk to me any more?

When I realized I had a whole new family in Christ, I was probably the most excited person in the world. Finally! I could talk to people about God! They'd understand me, I'd understand them! No more of this "you're weird" bit. Can you imagine my shock to discover that the people of the church weren't any different than the people of the world? They were just as close-minded and prideful as the people outside of church. Was I wrong to expect a slight difference at least? Isn't that why God gave us a church? So, I'm sitting there in shock, asking God why, and He said, "I didn't send you to church to be fed, I sent you to feed the church." Okay, I say. Give me the food and I'll feed them. Again, I thought, "Okay, now I'm saying what God tells me to say. They won't reject me now. They wouldn't dare say God is "weird", "too serious," "too deep," or "frightening". But they did. And when I go to His word to find comfort, I come smack up against Paul suffering the same thing. And Jeremiah, and Isaiah, and Moses, and...Jesus Himself.

God showed Paul the differences in spiritual growth. Some could only take in milk, others were ready for meat. So Paul encourages people to grow into "meat eaters". So, I figure I just have to have patience. They'll get where I'm at eventually. Jesus said, "Those with ears, let them hear," and left it at that. He never tried to force it on anyone. So I know God's in control of this and no amount of talk is going to change where people are at. He also said that if they reject me, know they rejected Him first. Funny, knowing it isn't me but God people are rejecting doesn't make me feel any better. I know they're rejecting God, but they don't. They think they're rejecting me. Would they treat me with more respect if they REALLY believed I was as valuable to God as they know themselves to be? If some of what I say is hard to swallow, don't outright blow me off. Take it to God. See what He says. Go to the bible. Find the verses that challenge what I've said, and then ask the Holy Spirit if you truly understand every thing about that verse. I've walked with God for a very long time. How then can I know nothing? Where's the respect?

[Fez]

He also said that if they reject me, know they rejected Him first. Funny, knowing it isn't me but God people are rejecting doesn't make me feel any better. I know they're rejecting God, but they don't. They think they're rejecting me. Would they treat me with more respect if they REALLY believed I was as valuable to God as they know themselves to be?

I think we need to explore the scripture you are quoting here. My take is that Jesus said to the disciples, if you are rejected, shake the dust off your sandals and leave. Right? It was not so much the rejection of the disciples that Jesus was talking about, but the rejection of the message they had.

When people reject us, they are not rejecting God, but if they be believers, they are certainly not adhering to the Word. But then again we are all sinners.

(one caveat here. We could be rejecting angels, because that is scriptural)

And in God's eyes, yes, we are all equally valuable as believers while we are here, there is no scale, no grading.

Now a tough question, and no judgement from me, because I ask it from a place I used to be in until I learned to love.

Do you love yourself? Or hate yourself?

[Guest yod]

We have no options for changing the past...but we are in complete control of how we respond.

If you have truly studied the Word, you'll recognize when the enemy is whispering in your ear little accusations like "they aren't paying attention to me" or "no one cares about me" or other self-conscious accusations. You are only a victim if you let yourself become one.

The answer to the situations you've brought up is simple but it's up to you to make a hard decision. Forgive. Keep no record of wrongs. Daily.

Instead of being upset and depressed about the past, seize the day! Choose to forgive and live with an attitude of gratitude so those things can't hurt you ever again. Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die from it.

As Paul says, spiritual maturity means we learn to be content in ALL things! Instead of being bitter about your parents, fall on your knees and thank God you have parents...ask Him to forgive you for being ungrateful....and find ways to honor them anyway. Instead of being resentful for "religious manipulation" from the church, determine not to let them hinder your mandate to love all people made in the image of God.

those things don't come naturally...but you are a supernatural being now. Just do it

I can find God in everything else but people. How sad is that?

Then I have to ask....what exactly do you expect from them?

Jesus had one commandment - "Love one another as I have loved you" and He came to be a servant. If you try serving others with a pure heart, you'll find Him in EVERY person.

[stormy612]

I feel like life is closing in on me like a vise. All I want is to find a real friend, someone who wants to get to know me, someone who feels I add something to their life. The people I'm around everyday want me to be like them. They don't understand why I don't think like them, talk like them, or want the same things they want-and yes, these are Christian people. I'm not "different" to them, I'm "wrong." I'm not someone they can learn something new from, I'm just "wrong." I'm not someone with a unique perspective, I'm just "wrong." When I do get to talk, I get several responses from Christians but it always ends up meaning I'm wrong, they're right. I can handle it if people could say, "I don't understand" but are willing to learn or at least listen to what I'm saying. But that isn't what I get. When I go to a bible study, people beg me to share promising not to be judgemental. So, as usual, I fall for it, share what God shows me, ask questions I ponder, and then it happens...their eyes grow puzzled, their faces close down, and I'm not asked to share anymore. Little by little I'm made to feel unwanted. If I leave and don't come back, no one bothers to call to find out where I've been. Isn't that rejection?

I'll give you an example: I want to go to college and get a degree in philosophy. I am a born thinker. I was asking philosophical questions when I was 4 years old. I've been asking them ever since. Its just who I am. Instead of people just accepting this in me, they try to change me.. They tell me I don't need to take things so far, or be so serious about this or that. And they love to say a degree in philosophy won't land me a job, as if that can stop God. They never consider that God made me this way and that He did this for a reason. God put something awesome in me and I feel it all the time. Its bigger than me and (excuse the poor method of expressing this) I feel like its going to rip me at the seams if I don't let it out. And when I do, I get rejected. I have absolutely no skills in dealing with being rejected. You'd think I'd have come up with some kind of defense against it, but I haven't. When I get strange looks, I feel punched in the gut. Whoops. I did it again.

God, in His awesome friendship, has been helping me understand that I'm just as good as everyone else, just in a different way. I'm not "weird", "too deep", "strange", "bizarre," or "whacko". God says I'm beautiful. He made me that way. He's rubbing off the gunk the world has buried me under and I'm actually starting to see a little of what He sees. It is beautiful. And people are missing out. But what kind of comfort is that suppose to be? They don't know what their missing so really they aren't missing anything. I'm still alone.

If you say "church" to me, I'll say "power hungry, prideful hypocrites"; you say "parents" to me, I'll say "liars"; you say "friend" to me, I'll say "backstabber"; you say "teacher", I'll say "master manipulator". I don't possess "normal" associations with the "good things of God" so telling me these things are "good for me" only makes me see you as "one of them." I look at people and ask God why I'm suppose to listen to anything they have to say anymore. He's the source of all truth and wisdom, after all. I don't need people to know Him. The proof is in the pudding. All that I know of God, He taught me (He fed Isaiah through ravens, remember). People have taught me the ways of the world and of sin-NOT of acceptance and love and all the good things God talks about in His word. But God wants me to talk to others because they also reflect Him. I'll only ever learn so much of God from my own perspective. To learn more of Him, I need to find Him in others. Unfortunately, all I see in people right now is the world. I haven't seen God yet. I can find Him in nature, I can find Him in books, I can find Him in music. I can find God in everything else but people. How sad is that?

It sounds sad. However having said this I remember Philip and the Etheopian eunuch, which was a teaching session.

Please do not take this as criticism, but rather as something to ponder. Perhaps God wants to teach you through others, but

you are not receptive. A spirit of humility is necessary for us to learn.

I also want to see God through others, but I must realize that they are made of dust, even as am I, and that their human nature

is also their sin nature. It takes an act of our will to stop our sin nature and hear the Word of God.

If you want to learn of Him through others you can ask Him to send you to those who can teach you His truth. You must be willing

to accept what He sends you. I learned this lesson some years back when I prayed for a teacher, then when He sent me one, I was not

willing to learn from him. His voice was strange and what he told me was not what I have already learned from many years of listening

to teachers. What I found was that I had a lot to re-learn. I could not fault all those who had taught me in the past, they were also in

a learning mode, I am sure. Eventually I told God I did not trust the man He had sent me (what arrogance on my part!) but that I was going

to trust (my humility) Him for what he was teaching me. Finally I began to learn and it was amazing!

We can only come together on the basis of His truth and that must be our starting point, letting the Word verify itself.

Proverbs 3

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

All I've ever done is listen and learn (that's part and parcel for being a born thinker). I'm always asking questions, pondering God's truth. When I think of how big God is, I can't help but see just how small I am. II don't have a problem with humility, its other people who have a problem with my humility. They come at me like they know everything and I know nothing. I'm treated like a child who constantly needs to be taught. God told me its people's pride. People who "know" are strong people, but people who don't "know" (aka: those who question) are seen as weak. People feel vulnerable so they have to "know" in order to be seen as strong. Its a defense mechanism. It's pride. People don't listen to God for the exact same reason.

I don't even think I have a right to teach people anything. I don't trust in what I know because what I know is always changing thanks to the Holy Spirit, and I don't know the hearts of people, but the Holy Spirit does. I trust God, not me. When I talk to people and try to "give advice" or knowledge, I am simply trying to give a good word at that right moment, a word prompted by God:

Pro 15:23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word [spoken] in due season, how good [is it]!

Pro 12:25 Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad.

Recently, the lady I work for and I began what I thought would be a discussion on marriage, vows, forgiveness, biblical reasons for divorce, and how that all ties into walking in faith. The conversation began innocently enough. She's been married for 30 + years and I asked her how it felt. We talked marriage for a bit, then it changed to a discussion on the prevelance of divorce. It started out okay until I said something she disagreed with. Suddenly I was wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong. She began pressing her views on me, cutting me off mid-sentence even, unwilling to hear a different point of view. She had forgotten (or didn't care?) that I am the one pondering divorce. I am looking for help, but also to just be heard and understood. My perspective of divorce is different than hers. Instead of asking me how I actually felt and understood what I know AND BELIEVE, she bulldozed over me with her opinions and ideas insisting that I am wrong. If this had been a hypothetical discussion I would've been fine to just listen, but this is my life. I've talked endlessly with God about this. I've searched God's word endlessly about this. My point of view is not without knowledge so why did she treat me as though I'd never bothered to seek out this information myself? Why did she automatically assume I needed her to tell me I was wrong and then proceed to tell me the "right" way? Not only did she disregard me in this, she disregarded God. All that I do know and believe about marriage and divorce, I know because of God. How could she just blow that off? Why is what God has shown me of so little value and always wrong?

This is a typical scenario with me. This particular subject happend to be personal but personal or not, this is how I get treated in every single "discussion". And during this very one-sided discussion, when I wanted to just get quiet and let her talk as I always do when someone gets that defensive, God told me to speak up. He said to quote the verses that backed up what I've learned and leave it at that. The results are up to Him. He said He wanted me to speak up because it would challenge her faith and understanding. I don't know if she learned anything from it or not, but I took something away from it, a perspsective I hadn't considered before. So even in the midst of being attacked I can still learn something.

[stormy612]

If you say "church" to me, I'll say "power hungry, prideful hypocrites"; you say "parents" to me, I'll say "liars"; you say "friend" to me, I'll say "backstabber"; you say "teacher", I'll say "master manipulator". I don't possess "normal" associations with the "good things of God" so telling me these things are "good for me" only makes me see you as "one of them."

I used to think these same things (church, friend) except for my parents. My parents did the best they could with what they knew. What I have to remind myself everyday is that all these people are God's creation and if God can love them uncondionally, then I have to learn to love them. It takes a lot of grace!

What do you mean "associate with the good things of God"?

welcome back and Be Blessed.

I just mean that what brings comfort and joy to most Christians causes me pain and suffering. My joy and comfort in Him comes from other sources, other places. I'm not implying church is a bad thing. It just isn't good for me.

[stormy612]

He also said that if they reject me, know they rejected Him first. Funny, knowing it isn't me but God people are rejecting doesn't make me feel any better. I know they're rejecting God, but they don't. They think they're rejecting me. Would they treat me with more respect if they REALLY believed I was as valuable to God as they know themselves to be?

I think we need to explore the scripture you are quoting here. My take is that Jesus said to the disciples, if you are rejected, shake the dust off your sandals and leave. Right? It was not so much the rejection of the disciples that Jesus was talking about, but the rejection of the message they had.

When people reject us, they are not rejecting God, but if they be believers, they are certainly not adhering to the Word. But then again we are all sinners.

(one caveat here. We could be rejecting angels, because that is scriptural)

And in God's eyes, yes, we are all equally valuable as believers while we are here, there is no scale, no grading.

Now a tough question, and no judgement from me, because I ask it from a place I used to be in until I learned to love.

Do you love yourself? Or hate yourself?

The one difference between me and the disciples is there were 12 of them and they all stuck together. I am alone. I've shaken the dust off my sandals and left too many times to count.

As for loving myself, I use too, when I was little. I thought the stuff of me was so cool! I really liked the things I liked and wanted. But the world didn't like those things so I grew to hate myself. What did it matter if I liked me? If the world found no value in those things, if they served no purpose for them, what use was I? Well, God eventually broke through and showed me the value of being appreciated by the world. He made me and thus I have value, even though the people of the world can't see it. For the past year or so, God has been reminding me of those things I knew of myself back when I was little, and introducing me to some stuff I never knew about me. I'm actually really cool. He's kindling a desire in me to return to that sweet little girl I was, that same little girl my dad loved to say was crazy. God has never seen anything wrong with me. Its the world that has a problem with me.

[stormy612]

We have no options for changing the past...but we are in complete control of how we respond.

If you have truly studied the Word, you'll recognize when the enemy is whispering in your ear little accusations like "they aren't paying attention to me" or "no one cares about me" or other self-conscious accusations. You are only a victim if you let yourself become one.

The answer to the situations you've brought up is simple but it's up to you to make a hard decision. Forgive. Keep no record of wrongs. Daily.

Instead of being upset and depressed about the past, seize the day! Choose to forgive and live with an attitude of gratitude so those things can't hurt you ever again. Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die from it.

As Paul says, spiritual maturity means we learn to be content in ALL things! Instead of being bitter about your parents, fall on your knees and thank God you have parents...ask Him to forgive you for being ungrateful....and find ways to honor them anyway. Instead of being resentful for "religious manipulation" from the church, determine not to let them hinder your mandate to love all people made in the image of God.

those things don't come naturally...but you are a supernatural being now. Just do it

I can find God in everything else but people. How sad is that?

Then I have to ask....what exactly do you expect from them?

Jesus had one commandment - "Love one another as I have loved you" and He came to be a servant. If you try serving others with a pure heart, you'll find Him in EVERY person.

I have truly studied His word. Why are you assuming I haven't? Because I'm hurt? Because I'm lonely? Because I'm angry?

I've been told by some people they can't talk with me because I know more of the bible than they do. I see they aren't where I am at and they aren't in a position to listen and learn. What else can I do but leave them alone?

I've been told by some that the things I say are frightening. But I didn't say it. God did. Again, I can see clearly by their reaction that they aren't in a position to listen or learn. So again, I back away.

I've been told by some that they don't know that story in the bible and will have to read it for themselves. Once again, what can I do but back off? (These people never do come back to me, by the way.)

I've been told so many things but what I don't ever see happening is people willing to listen and learn. What I've been told by people is just an excuse to get me to go away.

My first year was at a military college. I found a poster hanging on a wall in one of the hallways that displayed the soldiers "Code of Honor". My heart swelled when I read it, and my love for soldiers only grew that much more. I was devestated to discover not one soldier who actually followed through with even one item on that list. Even the guys in charge didn't make them honor the code at all. It was all just pretty words. It was all a lie. Those words meant nothing to the soldier. So why were they put there? For looks? When I told my dad (a soldier from the early 60's) I got only as far the mentioning the Code of Honor when he broke out laughing and said, "No one follows that." What a fool was I.

Christians seem like that Code of Honor-pretty words but of no real value to those who profess it. You ask me what I expect of others. You said that we are all of equal value in God's eyes, yet the one of first things you said to me was "If you have truly studied the word..." You put your knowledge above mine as if my knowledge was somehow less that yours. You didn't wait for me to say anything like, "I'm struggling with this..." or "I've asked God about this and I'm waiting for His answer..." You just decided you knew more and therefore should make that clear to me. I don't need you to point out where I am WRONG in my thinking. When did I say "I'm wrong in my thinking and need ya'll to straighten me out"? I needed you to want to understand what I KNOW and that what I KNOW is as equally valid as what you know. That's what I expect of others. They certainly expect it of me.

I think I answered a couple of other posts in yours. Sorry.

Edited September 4, 2011 by stormy612

[stormy612]

I love you guys. I really do. Re-reading my posts I see I'm attacking ya'll. I don't mean to be so defensive. I am so angry. I'm sorry.

[Guest yod]

I have truly studied His word. Why are you assuming I haven't? Because I'm hurt? Because I'm lonely? Because I'm angry?

if you hadn't projected an image of being so easily offended, there would have been no reason to mention those verses. Gaining knowledge isn't the primary purpose for studying the Word, it has to be manifest in the fruit of the Spirit.

Are you just having a bad day? Need to vent???

Go ahead...just don't allow yourself to hold on to a root of bitterness anymore.

[stormy612]

I have truly studied His word. Why are you assuming I haven't? Because I'm hurt? Because I'm lonely? Because I'm angry?

if you hadn't projected an image of being so easily offended, there would have been no reason to mention those verses. Gaining knowledge isn't the primary purpose for studying the Word, it has to be manifest in the fruit of the Spirit.

Are you just having a bad day? Need to vent???

Go ahead...just don't allow yourself to hold on to a root of bitterness anymore.

Yeh. That must be it. I'm just having a bad day. You're right. I'm wrong. Typical.