Women Pastors

[stevehut]

Paul was so adament about women submitting to men that he even wrote a passage about how wives should submit to their lost husbands.

Good point.

Relative spiritual maturity was not the issue.

[stevehut]

Oh boy....so much for hypotheticals

Not meant to be a rhetorical question, Bob.

As I've said before, I'm sure that I could come up with a thousand other hypothetical scenarios about this. But the divine commands and examples still stand.

[BobTriez]

Oh boy....so much for hypotheticals 

Not meant to be a rhetorical question, Bob.

As I've said before, I'm sure that I could come up with a thousand other hypothetical scenarios about this. But the divine commands and examples still stand.

Ok, I'll bite...how about answering my question on the child who turns 18. We'll start there.

God bless,

Bob

[stevehut]

I think the problem here is you are saying the scriptures are telling women to submit to all men.

I, for one, have never believed this.

Submission, seems to be, is based upon relationships.

My wife has a relationship with me, and with our pastor. In these situations, submission applies.

But she does not have a relationship with our male neighbor next door. Submission does not apply here.

Is that what you meant?

[stevehut]

Ok, I'll bite...how about answering my question on the child who turns 18. We'll start there.

I don't think I saw your question. Ask it again, plz

[BobTriez]

Ok, I'll bite...how about answering my question on the child who turns 18.

[stevehut]

Alright *duh*, I wasn't paying attention...

Bob, I think I answered that question a couple of pages back...

When does a boy become a man?

I don't know. I wouldn't be so dogmatic as to stipulate a certain fixed age.

But most churches have a point when the kids "graduate" from the youth ministry to the (for lack of a better term) "adult" ministry, don't they?

[BobTriez]

When does a boy become a man?

I don't know. I wouldn't be so dogmatic as to stipulate a certain fixed age.

But most churches have a point when the kids "graduate" from the youth ministry to the (for lack of a better term) "adult" ministry, don't they?

Bob, I think I answered that question a couple of pages back...

But it wasn't addressed to ME! Fair enough Steve. I gotta run anyway....

[keslc]

I think the problem here is you are saying the scriptures are telling women to submit to all men.

I, for one, have never believed this.

Submission, seems to be, is based upon relationships.

My wife has a relationship with me, and with our pastor. In these situations, submission applies.

But she does not have a relationship with our male neighbor next door. Submission does not apply here.

Is that what you meant?

You made my point for me.

[apothanein kerdos]

The problem with this is that it denies all Biblical teachings and concepts. Paul was so adament about women submitting to men that he even wrote a passage about how wives should submit to their lost husbands. Thus, Paul seems to believe that submission is more important. Likewise, why would a woman need to lead a man on a one on one basis like you're describing? I would not advise a woman to lead a man or a man to lead a woman in a one on one situation because it would inevitably lead to trouble.

Also, to presuppos that God would call a woman to lead a man is again to go against what we've learned from the scriptures. We can say, "Oh but God can do whatever He wants." Yes, He can, however this doesn't mean He will. If God wanted to He could rid us of all sin at this moment and take everyone to Heaven. He has the power to do that. However the question is, will He? The obvious answer from someone who studies scripture is "no". Likewise, can God call a woman to lead men in a church setting? Absolutely. The quesiton is, "will He?" The obvious answer from scripture is a resounding no.

Just asking for purposes of discussion. Thanks

God bless,

Bob

I hope I didn't come across in a negative way, I was trying to answer the question and probably got too much into it.

I think the problem here is you are saying the scriptures are telling women to submit to all men. I don't think that is the case. I think that yes, Paul was very adadment about women submitting to their husbands, but not all men.

I'd say that was reading too much into my post, but then I saw where you got that. Very poor wording on my part. I was talking about Paul's serious stance on submission. From what it seems, to the women, no matter who the husband is, they are to submit. Likewise, women in the church are to submit to the authority, that what we gather from the Bible, is suppose to be male.

Also, if we read in 1 Timothy (i think) about how the older women are to treat the younger women and the olde rmen are to treat the younger men, we can learn that in the mentoring situation from the question, it'd be stupid to have a women mentor a man or a man mentor a woman (unless of course that woman is the wife of that man).

Anyway, back to clarifying, I do not believe the scriptures tell women to submit to all men. I believe women are to submit to their husbands, and if there is no husband, then within a church setting they should submit to their pastor.

Ok, I'll bite...how about answering my question on the child who turns 18.  We'll start there.

What constitutes a man is a big issue. The thing is, there is no age. This can become an important issue when the debate of female youth pastors comes into play. The truth is that it's a maturity aspect. Some young males at the age of sixteen might have the maturity to be considered adults. Some males at the age of eighteen might have the maturity to be considered adolescents . It just depends on the maturity level of the person.