Does THIS Doctrine line up with God's Words?

[Littlelambseativy]

I take it that the very words of our Lord are not sufficient for you, particularly when on the cross He cried,"It is finished." You think must add to what He completed? His work is not enough for you? For the rest of us we rest in His saving grace - a work completed.

How can any work that you do add to what He did? As I said, any work that you do cannot add to your salvation it is free. The works that are done are for rewards in heaven only - no work can add to what our Lord did on the cross.

[enoob57]

,

So you make The Son out to be a liar!

"It is finished" meaning His Provision for The Way, The Truth, The Life was accomplished all that Was Given Him by The Father was secured unto eternal Life and that Life was to be in The Resurrected Son of God... Love, Steven

How so?

When someone gives me something Eph 2:8-9- it is just that, a gift, with no strings attached, otherwise, if effort on my part is required it is a reward-> When you work you expect to be paid=reward for work... In God's economy we owe God everything for all that we are is a direct result in His giving, with the one exception of sin, that we owe God's highest created angel, satan! So in choice we became sinners- we believe lies rather than truth, we in fact prefer them over the truth! In this darkness as lovers of lies we cannot understand the the lovers of truth thus lies and truth are separated as the example of light and darkness and there is no fellowship of the two!

Paul In The Spirit teaches

1 Cor 5:6-8

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

NKJV

You are truly unleavened... yet they were still in the process of getting rid of old leaven of sin and replacing with the unleaven bread... This Bread that has Truth brought down out of Heaven by The "Christ" Jn 18:37

The finished work of Christ is seen

1 Cor 5:5

5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NKJV

within the leavened lump lies that which is unleavened by the miracle of New Birth, not of this world but of the one that is coming.... That is the miracle, that is the free gift, that is the finished Work of Christ... Love, Steven

[oak]

Eccl look at what you’ve done. This topic is ceaseless! I gave it 3 tries. The last being the Beatitudes which take effort and work – and I believe they are a ladder to salvation. However Shiloh said, “they have nothing to with salvation.” He backed up his thoughts.

Lastly, I took part in this topic not to match wits but due to my concern for the Eternal Security crowd to get to heaven. I think they are great bunch of people and seeing there love and fervor for Christ (that I pray is in spirit), I have no more to say.

Leaving,

Oak

PS I was on the Eccl team.

[Eccl12v13]

Some believe that it was salvation that was the free gift that Jesus gave. But God's word does not tell us this at all.....so again I ask;

What was the free gift? What was it that made it possible to remove the curse of the law? What is the ONLY thing that Jesus gave that made it possible for man to come from under his sins?

Eph.2

[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph.2:8 does not say that it was salvation that was the free gift....it states that GRACE was the gift! Now.......here's the big question......

What is the grace that Jesus gave that answers ALL of the above questions? You cannot plug in the word 'salvation'! That does not answer the questions!

So...what was this grace that Jesus gave for all of mankind to have the right to eternal life?

.

[Guest agua]

So...what was this grace that Jesus gave for all of mankind to have the right to eternal life?

The free gift is Jesus perfect sinless sacrifice. Jesus took the penalty for our sin. The grace is fulfilling the requirement of blood shedding for ever.

Heb 10:10 NKJV By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Edited November 1, 2011 by agua

[Massorite]

.

It's not about anything I can do to earn my way in to heaven, but all about Him who thru His marvelous Love and Grace has GIVEN us entrance thru acceptance of the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior.

Blessings stacey c

Sin, which is something you do, can destroy your faith. Right?

Where does it say that sin, in and of itself destroys your faith?

There are many who are outwardly righteous that will not make it, and there are many who are not so outwardly righteous that will. The word says that nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ. Nothing.

Now if you are speaking of turning your back on Christ and fully rejecting him, then yes, that is a sin that can cause you to lose your faith. However, if a person is a drug addict and gets saved but dies before he beats his addiction, would they be saved, as they are living in sin, but fighting against it?

I don't think the bible actually says that. But sin is like a cancer which if not treated will continue to consume more and more of that which is good. Thereby destroying our faith in Christ. our need for Christ and our desire for Christ.

However when scripture says that "a little leaven, will leaven the whole lump" it is talking about the contamination of the whole lump by just a little bit of sin which means that a little bit of unrepented sin that goes untreated or unrepented from will destroy our individual salvation.

Yes and the leaven is speaking of a sinful person affecting the rest of the Church body. We all have some sin, however a single sin does not separate us. As I stated, rejecting the cross is the only thing I know of that will separate you. You can not say fall into lust, and be separated. However if you make lust a lifestyle, and do so while fully rejecting the cross then it will become your god and not Jesus.

I see the difference as this. Falling down, vs, jumping down into the mud and throwing a temper tantrum and refusing to get up, but even then, salvation is not about works, nor do I believe it is predestined like many osas people claim. However I don't belive that if you chose give into temptation, and die right then that is a loss of salvation. You see the dangerous part is this, this puts us in a position as it puts us into the spot of judging peoples salvation.

You said-"However if you make lust a lifestyle, and do so while fully rejecting the cross then it will become your god and not Jesus."

And I agree. This is my point exactly. One sin or many sins will never change our salvation as long as we get back up. But falling down and never getting back up will will take away our salvation.

Here is a good example. Lets say that I have fallen back into drunkeness and because of that drunkeness I stop going to church, I stop reading the bible, I start hanging out with my old drinking buddies and go back to that life style I was in before I was saved and die before I have repented from that life style. Do I still get to go to heaven because I was saved or am I doomed to eternal hell because I backslid and rejected Christ after knowing Christ?

The answer is in scripture. 1 Cor. 6:9&10 "9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." Saved or not if you are a drunkerd when death comes you do not get into heaven.

When one turns from Christ and back to unrepented sin/bondage that sin/bondage becomes the god of that sinner and Christ is no longer in the forefront of the sinners mind and if that sinner does not repent from that bondage before he/she dies, then salvation is lost and the sinner is condemned to eternal death. Temptation in itself is harmless. It is what we do with that temptation that dictates whether or not we keep our salvation or not.

[tintiger78]

Romans 4 makes this crystal clear, Abe was justified by faith.

We do not need to do work to secure our salvation, it is wholly a gift. The works are an indication that the salvation has taken place, and have nothing to do with keeping or securing it.

I know this may be a hard one to understand but the gift that Jesus gave was not salvation! The gift that He gave ALLOWS each and everyone of us the chance at salvation!

Now that He has given us the means or way to salvation it is up to us to do what is needed to obtain it.

.

Ok, I must note that I strongly disagree withh your statement, Eccl. If we do not have a guarentte of salvation in the finished work of Jesus Christ, then I must echo the words of Paul in 1 Cor 15:19,

If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

If only get into Heaven by a roll of divine dice, then what is the point of God telling us to live righteously? It would be of no benefit. No, Christ did not die to leave it to chance that we make Heaven. He died once for all to open the doors for all to come freely as they trust in Him for salvation.

I point to these verses in John; 1:12, 3:3, 3:16-18, 5:24. In each one, Jesus makes it clear. It is not chance. The only thing we have to do to receive this salvation is accept it.

Candice, I apologize that I jumped in on your conversation with Eccl, but I felt a need to address it. Please forgive me if I offended.

[~candice~]

No offense taken

[glf]

No what I said was that no one gets blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life. That is different than the "Book of Life." The Bible is very careful to make that distinction.

They are one in the same!

First let's find who it will be that will judge all of mankind, thus being the only one blotting out names from His book!

Let's prove this;

Gen.18

[25] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

And who will it be that judges mankind?

John 5

[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Now who was it that Moses spoke with concerning blotting out His name from the book? The ONLY one that will be blotting names out of His book; Jesus Christ! Let's read...

Rev.3

[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Now let's read who will not be getting into the knigdom based on what is in the book;

Rev.20

[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now let's read who will not be getting into the kingdom based upon what is written in the Lamb's book of life;

Rev.21

[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

The book of life and the Lamb's book of life are one in the same.

Jesus is the ONLY one that will judge mankind!

Jesus is the ONLY that will be blotting names out of books!

If your name is not in the book of Life/the Lamb's book of life you will NOT enter into God's kingdom, meaning you will NOT receive God's promise of eternal life!

.

Rev 22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

[glf]

WOW!!! You posted alot of stuff.....but did not address the issue!

God tells us that ONLY those whose name is in His books will have eternal life!

God tells us that names CAN be blotted out of His books!

Gos tells us that the ONLY thing that will cause a name to be blooted out is sin!

God tells us that sin is breaking His laws!

God tells us if a name is in His books when they die eternal life is theirs!

God also tells us if the righteous STOP doing that which is right and returns to sinning and dies in his sins he will die the second death!

So just how secure is a name in God's books!

Actually, I addressed the issue head-on. The problem is that you don't like the answer because to pulls the rug out from under the notion that a genuine believer can never be secure.

I can only speak for myself in that regard. I know I am saved. I made a decision to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I have a "know-so salvation." I don't have to wonder if my name is still up there or not. I have passed from judgment to life and I am saved by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. I have been to the Judge and that old account has been setteled a long time ago. So for my part, my name is in the Lamb's Book of Life and it will be there never to be removed. God is faithful to save to the uttermost those that trust in Him.

How secure is for everyone else? Well, that is something they have to settle with the Lord. Each person has to come to that hour of decision where they come to a realization of their sin and repent of it and truly turn to Christ for salvation.

As I said the Christian who has an authentic profession of faith has nothing to fear about eternity. Their name is in the Lamb's Book of Life and no one gets blotted out of that book.

Rev22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."