just_fish Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 23 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wahl. like I said some time back, the" S;R-L;R-S;R-L;R-S" etc crowd want us to be "Re-Saved" over & over & over umpteen times untl we're "Re-Saved' for keeps even though Jesus said in John Chapter Three that we be born again but once! I love it, I love it, but will it play in Peoria? I'm not sure if your remark is pointed at me so please ignore this if it wasn't. I do not believe men are saved over and over. I simply note that Jesus indicated that although your name is written in the book of life it can yet be blotted out. I have a personal belief about the book of life that as far as I can tell goes with scripture but I am also a new Christian so I am still learning daily. I personally believe that everyone's names are in the Book of Life at the beginning of the foundation of the world. I get this by Jesus telling us that he wishes that all men might be saved. (1 Tim 2:3-4). Everywhere in the Bible that it talks about the Book of Life it is either the name is found, not found or blotted out, but Psalms is what convinces me that everyone's name is in their in the beginning. Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. David is speaking about his enemies here and he assumes their names are in the book and ask that they be blotted out. I believe that no one can be saved excepted they are drawn to him by the holy spirit. (John 16:8) The sin that is unforgivable is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, (Mark 3:29) and this is the point that they a blotted out of the Book of Life. Just a babe in Christ two cents. In His love, Brian Just remember with this thought it assumes GOD "learns" something from man's reaction and then removes them from the book. This takes away from HIS omniscience, and HE has to "react" to our decisions and change HIS plans without prior knowledge of what our actions are going to be. (wow that can open up a can of worms eh!!! ) Just a thought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Job 5:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shodan Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 Wahl. like I said some time back, the" S;R-L;R-S;R-L;R-S" etc crowd want us to be "Re-Saved" over & over & over umpteen times untl we're "Re-Saved' for keeps even though Jesus said in John Chapter Three that we be born again but once! I love it, I love it, but will it play in Peoria? I'm not sure if your remark is pointed at me so please ignore this if it wasn't. I do not believe men are saved over and over. I simply note that Jesus indicated that although your name is written in the book of life it can yet be blotted out. I have a personal belief about the book of life that as far as I can tell goes with scripture but I am also a new Christian so I am still learning daily. I personally believe that everyone's names are in the Book of Life at the beginning of the foundation of the world. I get this by Jesus telling us that he wishes that all men might be saved. (1 Tim 2:3-4). Everywhere in the Bible that it talks about the Book of Life it is either the name is found, not found or blotted out, but Psalms is what convinces me that everyone's name is in their in the beginning. Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. David is speaking about his enemies here and he assumes their names are in the book and ask that they be blotted out. I believe that no one can be saved excepted they are drawn to him by the holy spirit. (John 16:8) The sin that is unforgivable is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, (Mark 3:29) and this is the point that they a blotted out of the Book of Life. Just a babe in Christ two cents. In His love, Brian Just remember with this thought it assumes GOD "learns" something from man's reaction and then removes them from the book. This takes away from HIS omniscience, and HE has to "react" to our decisions and change HIS plans without prior knowledge of what our actions are going to be. (wow that can open up a can of worms eh!!! ) Just a thought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Job 5:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shodan Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Whenever this topic is discussed, the first mistake that is made is to discuss it as if there were only two positions, (A) and (B). But there is another. (A) This is the biblical doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints as expressed by Calvin (B) This is a different version of that biblical doctrine as understood by Wesley. © This iis the modern doctrine that flies under the banner of "once saved, always saved" The differences: Wesley stated that on justification, he did not vary an hair's breadth from Calvin. In an hypothetical example of someone who was labeled a Christian but who died while living an unrepentant life in sin, BOTH would recognize that the man was lost. The only difference is that (A) Calvin would say that the man was never saved in the first place, (B) Wesley might recognize the Christian life of the man and say that he fell away. © The modern OSAS position says that this man, who responded to an altar call and made a profession of faith, was saved no matter how he lived. The second mistake many make was expressed by a friend at our men's prayer breakfast when this topic came up re: A vs B. "The Church has not solved this in 2000 years, we are not going to solve it this morning." For a fuller discussion of this, see chapter 4, Sin and Silence, of Love, Prayer, and Forgiveness: When Basics Become Heresies, recently reviewed here: http://thedeterminedchristian.com/?p=367 Can be ordered at any Christian bookstore, B&N, or various book outlets listed here: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Prayer-Forgiveness-Michael-Snow/dp/159467664X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330146893&sr=1-3 Edited February 25, 2012 by shodan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The modern OSAS position says that this man, who responded to an altar call and made a profession of faith, was saved no matter how he lived. NEGATIVE. You completely misrepresented the OSAS position. First, OSAS is based on true Salvation in the first place, not just an altar call or a profession of faith. True Salvation is what OSAS is based on - Born Again from Above - New Creation - Indwelt by the Holy Spirit Of God. OBVIOUSLY, one can make dozens of altar calls and be baptized many times and never be Saved. If I saw someone wallowing in sin, I would assume they are LOST and NEVER SAVED. Only God knows for sure those who are His. Obviously, one can't be Always Saved if they have never been Saved in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_fish Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 23 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 Whenever this topic is discussed, the first mistake that is made is to discuss it as if there were only two positions, (A) and (B). But there is another. (A) This is the biblical doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints as expressed by Calvin (B) This is a different version of that biblical doctrine as understood by Wesley. © This iis the modern doctrine that flies under the banner of "once saved, always saved" The differences: Wesley stated that on justification, he did not vary an hair's breadth from Calvin. In an hypothetical example of someone who was labeled a Christian but who died while living an unrepentant life in sin, BOTH would recognize that the man was lost. The only difference is that (A) Calvin would say that the man was never saved in the first place, (B) Wesley might recognize the Christian life of the man and say that he fell away. © The modern OSAS position says that this man, who responded to an altar call and made a profession of faith, was saved no matter how he lived. The second mistake many make was expressed by a friend at our men's prayer breakfast when this topic came up re: A vs B. "The Church has not solved this in 2000 years, we are not going to solve it this morning." For a fuller discussion of this, see chapter 4, Sin and Silence, of Love, Prayer, and Forgiveness: When Basics Become Heresies, recently reviewed here: http://thedeterminedchristian.com/?p=367 Can be ordered at any Christian bookstore, B&N, or various book outlets listed here: http://www.amazon.com/Love-Prayer-Forgiveness-Michael-Snow/dp/159467664X/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330146893&sr=1-3 Our LORD solved the mystery with the "Parables of the Soils". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Job 5:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AndrewCothran Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I am not a prophet nor a teacher but there is a grave deception when men re-assure other men about the very essence of salvation. The people that I have known left Worthy, and why did they leave? The spirit of deception is, oh so rampant. It is indeed insidious (leading to death). The overall structure of this lie is that is based on truth. Oh what a masterful play by demons. Let me say this for starters, there is (are) no guarantee, no coupon, and no short-cut to Salvation. This the fear that I had as a child, if God will condemn his unity in His Son to Crucifixion, who are we? Oh yea, right Christ took the entire burden on Himself so that we who are free – once we acknowledge and accept Him – are free to do as we please. WRONG!What kept me alive in these endless discussions was, “Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth…?” Lk18:8 This is written to the people that are the “elect who cry to Him day and night” Lk 18:7 Do you cry out to him day and night? I don’t. When I went on a search for Christ one Christian advisor said, “You have to decide who you are?” I said, who are you…? The sage replied, “A sinner.” Yes folks you can be sure God will fulfill His promises but as a sinner could you fulfill yours? It’s not even a matter of works because we cannot merit the gift of grace and the resulting salvation. That I fully agree with the OSAS and whatever name they choose to go by. I’m simply saying, God made Salvation and peace a two way street ever since he made the tree of right and wrong. Was God responsible for Adam and Eve’s downfall, yes and no is the answer. But hold on as many OSAS people will rant and rave about the subject, the Lord gave Adam and Eve RESPONSIBILITIES!!! Even though God knew this would happen, the answer is contingent on Adam and Eve, and therefore the correct phrasing is, did God want this to happen and the answer is an unequivocal NO !!! Let’s go to Romans, “Therefore you have no excuse, O man…” Rom 2:1 And if you have judged any man in anyway you are part of this passage. Yes, you have no excuse. And the OSAS has a passage to the truth which is correct: “Christ Jesus is the one who died – more than that, who was raised – who is at the right hand of God, who is indeed is interceding for us. Rom 8:34 How are we to lose? The answer is the same way Adam and Eve lost. Adam and Eve are safe now but are you? Yes, the debates will go on and on. But the sinner in me yearns for the Truth no matter what; there are two words that will snap my wicked soul in to attention: Obedience and Faith. These are under our control and don’t let anyone tare you away from these, for I see Judgement Day as a day that people will plead with God about not making them poverty stricken, uglier, less intelligent, less able to work crafts of art – ‘Oh God why did you put me in a position of such authority?’ Pilate is thinking this as we read. The essence is no matter what the “wise men” of our time say use your conscience and good reason of your mind. Life is a battle. A lonely battle for which you do not get earthly praise and all of us are addicted to the earth in one way or another. That’s the reason Christ washed the feet of his apostles: meaning the earth which is an advisory of Christ was in almost constant contact with the apostles – THX Watchman!!! To the least the most...! Oak Oak you are in essence talking about a works based salvation which is NO SALVATION at all .. I understand that Christians are to live a certain way but if salvation can be ruined by us ...then its not worth having to begin with . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted February 26, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Before AND after Salvation: Salvation can't be earned, deserved, purchased, or worked for. Salvation is accomplished with the WORKS of GOD - not man. Just as redemption, atonement, sanctification, and justification are WORKS of GOD - not man. Salvation is a GIFT of GOD and must be received through FAITH in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. What else is an act of God? 1 - Born again from ABOVE - regeneration as a NEW CREATURE. 2 - Indwelt by the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD and SEALED as an ERNEST of the PROMISES of GOD. 3 - Kept by GOD as HIS PURCHASED POSSESSION. 4 - Given a GLORIFIED BODY at God's Appointed Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoGrateful Posted February 28, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 81 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) While yes there is evidence of eternal security, it's not unconditional. Why are there so many warnings about falling away from faith? I can think of 3 possible reasons: 1) God can bluff (but not lie), and these "encouragements" help us to stay on the straight and narrow Connected to the first ... 2) God has many rewards to be given out later 3) God has many different levels of thrones in Heaven to be filled Edited February 28, 2012 by SoGrateful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted March 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted March 1, 2012 The "saved, re-lost, re-saved, re-lost, then re-saved" element cannot point to even one indiviidual in Holy Writ who was named & pointedly said to have been saved, then " re-lost" all over again. Saved by the blood of Christ & on his/her way to Glory, then tragically "re-lost" and once again bound for the Devil's Hell. "Temporal" salvation - which is hardly everlasting salvation at all! - is unknown in Bible Christianity. Jesus offers no one only a "temporal" salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted March 1, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 1, 2012 The "saved, re-lost, re-saved, re-lost, then re-saved" element cannot point to even one indiviidual in Holy Writ who was named & pointedly said to have been saved, then " re-lost" all over again. Saved by the blood of Christ & on his/her way to Glory, then tragically "re-lost" and once again bound for the Devil's Hell. "Temporal" salvation - which is hardly everlasting salvation at all! - is unknown in Bible Christianity. Jesus offers no one only a "temporal" salvation. Thank you so much for that left jam to such a erroneous and very harmful teaching, the source of this teaching is not of the Mind of Christ and not of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. I believe at the core of this unChristian doctrine is pride - I am good enough to acquire salvation - because I have worked to obtain it. The smell of brimstone is all over it. Good going, Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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