Bold Believer Posted January 16, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I found this while looking for information on the Number of the Beast. I don't know Michal Hunt nor am I affiliated with Agape Bible Study in any shape or form, however in this case, the lady has hit the eschatological nail on the head very squarely. I have placed the article in quotes. "Revelation 13:18 "There is need for shrewdness here: anyone clever may interpret the number of the beast: it is the number of a human being, the number 666." For a Jew this number was a fearful image. The Old Testament image that would immediately connect with Jews or Messianic Jews would be the fall of King Solomon, Israel's greatest ruler, as he led his people into apostasy. We'll discuss those passages at the end of this section. As you will remember we discussed the concept of "Rome is Caesar and Caesar is Rome"; that a ruler and his empire is one and the same. John clearly shows us this connection in the riddle of the number of the Beast. In the ancient world there was no separate set of symbols representing number value. Letters of the alphabet carried numerical value. The 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet all had number value just as the 24 letters of the Greek alphabet each had a number equivalent. But as for the Romans, only six letters carried number value: 1for the letter I, 5 for the letter V, 10 for the letter X, 50 for the letter L, 100 for the letter C, and 500 for the letter D. Contrary to popular belief there was no single letter value for 1000. That number was represented by back to back Ds and so resembled the letter M. John warns us that to solve this puzzle takes shrewdness and cleverness! The Roman Emperor we know as Nero Caesar had two common spelling for his name in the first century. One form was Nero Kesar but the Hebrew spelling is Neron Kesar. This is important because some ancient MSS (handwritten manuscripts) instead of using the number 666 have the number 616. If you add up the letter values in Hebrew (that's why it takes shrewdness-most people did not know Hebrew) Neron Caesar (Neron Kaisar) adds up to 666. Neron Kaisar = Nrwn Q(K)sr in Hebrew which used no vowels, was the linguistically correct Hebrew form and is found in the Jewish Talmud, in the writings of the community at Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and other rabbinical writings. No Jew would ever have thought of Nero except as rsq nwrn (Hebrew read left to right). But Nero Caesar (rsq nwr), the other spelling (alternate spellings were very common), adds up to 616, which is exactly the variant reading in a few New Testament Revelation manuscripts for the number of the Beast. Examples of Gematria for Neron Caesar and Nero Caesar Hebrew Hebrew Greek Nrwn Qsr - Neron Caesar Nrw Qsr - Nero Caesar Iesous - Jesus Q=100 Q=100 I=10 S=60 S=60 E=8 R=200 R=200 S=200 N=50 N=50 O=70 R=200 R=200 U=400 W=6 W=6 S=200 N=50 666 616 888 This is extremely strong evidence for the Beast representing the depraved Roman emperor Nero. It also cannot be overlooked that all the earliest Catholic Christian writers on the Apocalypse from St. Irenaeus Bishop of Lyon in the 2nd century down to St. Victorinus Bishop of Pettau martyred in AD 302 and Commodian in the 4th century, and Adreaeus in the 5th and St. Beatus in the 8th centuries connect Nero and/or Rome with the number of the Beast. Question: Why is 6 the number of man and the number of the beast? Answer: 6 is the number of man and the beasts because they were both created on the 6th day. There's an important connection to Christ and man here. Can you guess what it is? You'll find the answer in bold type as the lesson continues. Question: But if Nero is the Beast isn't Rome also the Beast. After all, isn't this an illustration of the saying which was commonly expressed during the world domination of the Roman Empire "Caesar is Rome and Rome is Caesar"? If you add up the value of the numbers used by Rome for counting, what is the value of those numbers? The Gematria of Roman numerals I 1 V 5 X 10 L 50 C 100 D 500 666 666 is a trinity of 6s never to be a 7. 6 is the number of man, especially as man in rebellion against God. Goliath was 6 cubits and a span (see 1 Samuel 17:4). King Nebuchadnezzar erected a statue to himself to be worshipped. It was 60 cubits high and 6 cubits across (Daniel 3:1) The answer of course i 666: The number of the Beast. Then too, Caesar claimed to be God. The word god in Greek is theos. Kaisar Theos is 616, the alternate number in some manuscripts: K 20 A 1 I 10 S 200 A 1 R 100 T 9 E 5 O 70 S 200 Total 616 If you are interested in numbers, you may like to know that the square of 6 (6x6) is 36, and the triangular of 36 is 666. Triangulation is a method of computation that was popular in the ancient world and was very familiar to people in the first century. It is too complicated to explain here but the different computations of the triangulation of 666 will yield both the numbers 3 1/2 and 1260 which are numbers you recognize from John's prophecy of the period of time the Beast is powerful and able to inflict suffering on the Saints. Another interesting aspect of this very mysterious number is that John wrote out the symbols. He didn't spell out the number. Therefore, the first number was the same first initial double letter (in Greek) as the name of Christ: x = CH. The last letter which looks like an s in Greek, was the first double-letter (st) of the word Cross = stauros. Between the two stood the symbol of the Serpent. The whole formed a triple repetition of 6, the number of man, and the number day that Jesus was crucified (Friday is the 6th day of the week with Saturday, the Sabbath, the 7th). Jesus died for man on the day man was created - Jesus died on the 6th day, Friday. Jesus was resurrected on the 8th day; which became the first day of the new creation. The gematria for Jesus (Iesous) in Greek, the language of the New Testament is 888. Eight 8) is the number of salvation and redemption. Jesus is a trinity of 8s. Question: Can you find anywhere else in Scripture where the number 666 is mentioned? Hint: see 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13. Answer: It is found only in these two places. Both passages record that King Solomon received 666 talents of gold in one year. Solomon is both a Biblical type for Christ and for the Beast. The number 666 marks both the height of his reign and the beginning of his fall away from God and into apostasy. Solomon falls from his position of favor with God as he breaks the three aws of godly kingship as recorded in Deuteronomy 17:16-17: the law against multiplying gold (1 Kings 10:14-25); the law against multiplying horses (1 Kings 10: 26-29); and the law against multiplying wives (1 Kings 11:1-8). As I already mentioned, for a Jew the number 666 was a fearful sign of apostasy and the mark of both a king and his kingdom that had failed to image God and so had fallen to the image of Satan. John's message is that Satan, the great red Dragon, at his most powerful is just a 6, or a series of 6s. He will never be a seven = perfection. His plans for the world and the downfall of man will never be fulfilled. The Church will overcome and be victorious through Jesus, the 888, who conquered on the 8th Day! Praise and glory to the King!" I checked the website and found that the author of this article is in fact unabashedly Catholic. That said, again, on this particular subject, she has done the Church in total a service. Her historical points are valid and she bears listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Gematria is not really reliable. It is part of Jewish occultism and I would be promoting an article that depends on something like that. Don't know why you are hanging your hat on Nero. Hadrian, Marcus Areilius and other Caesars after Nero were far, far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 16, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2012 Why does this person have to be someone from out past when this person, more then likely, is someone in our future; someone we have not heard of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted January 16, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2012 Spell it any way you want, but Nero is out of the question. Nero = zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 17, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,106 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,837 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's my understanding that his official title "Prince Charles of Wales" adds up to 666 in Greek, Hebrew and English. It's been a while since I read the book (The Antichrist and a Cup of Tea) but as i remember it looked pretty reliable at the time I read the book. There are others I am told, so I wouldn't go harassing poor Charlie over it. LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted January 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Gematria is not really reliable. It is part of Jewish occultism and I would be promoting an article that depends on something like that. Don't know why you are hanging your hat on Nero. Hadrian, Marcus Areilius and other Caesars after Nero were far, far worse. You are confusing gematria with kabbala. The two are different. They may have been worse, but they don't fit the parameters of the prophecy, Nero DOES. Also, their names do not add up to 666. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted January 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm wondering what the point is in identifying "nero" (15AD - 68AD) as the beast when Scripture is clear that Jesus is the one who destroys the beast when he comes on the clouds with the armies of heaven, which makes the beast a future entity, even from our perspective. Rev 19:11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The one whose name added up to 666 had to be someone recognizable to the audience to whom John was writing. That man is Nero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted January 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why does this person have to be someone from out past when this person, more then likely, is someone in our future; someone we have not heard of yet. Because a preterist has to make it someone in the past. Nero is not the antichrist, does not fit the description, was just another ruler, but preterists prop him up on a stick like he was the Holy Grail of preterism. Sir, I have told you and others that I am not a preterist. I'm getting sick and tired of you telling me what I am. I know what I believe. You WILL stop or I WILL have you censured. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2012 The one whose name added up to 666 had to be someone recognizable to the audience to whom John was writing. That man is Nero. Out of curiosity, do you believe that chapter 13 of Revelation was only meant for the people of that time, or do you believe there are future aspects yet to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why does this person have to be someone from out past when this person, more then likely, is someone in our future; someone we have not heard of yet. Because a preterist has to make it someone in the past. Nero is not the antichrist, does not fit the description, was just another ruler, but preterists prop him up on a stick like he was the Holy Grail of preterism. Sir, I have told you and others that I am not a preterist. I'm getting sick and tired of you telling me what I am. I know what I believe. You WILL stop or I WILL have you censured. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter what you are, Nero was not the anti-Christ and so far you multiple attempts to prove he was have failed to convince anyone. And by the way, you can't get anyone censured, so you can drop the threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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