nebula Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Shouting - again this is variable. Sometimes it's excitement. "Shout joyfully to the Lord...." But sometimes it's intercession. I know that's a hard one to grasp until you actually feel this pressure build-up in your gut and you have to release it somehow - verbal shouts and groanings are the easiest way to do that! And yes, there are those that need discipline. But hey, you have children in the house, they are going to make a mess. Help them to grow and mature rather than stifle them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2012 Shouting - again this is variable. Sometimes it's excitement. "Shout joyfully to the Lord...." But sometimes it's intercession. I know that's a hard one to grasp until you actually feel this pressure build-up in your gut and you have to release it somehow - verbal shouts and groanings are the easiest way to do that! And yes, there are those that need discipline. But hey, you have children in the house, they are going to make a mess. Help them to grow and mature rather than stifle them. I've always enjoy your love for others and your attitude. Yet, those who I have read and watch that do these things, are considered to be elders in most cases. It is not like they are new in Christ, but misled to believe what they do is proper. If it was a child in Christ, there would be the ability to correct them. Unfortunately, when you deal with elders, you have much less territory to move in, for they are "settled"in their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,304 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,509 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Please help me with this one, because this really bothers me amongst many other things in the Body of Christ. 1. Scripture does not condemn dancing as a physical activity. Mostly, references to dancing have to do with rejoicing and being happy. It is a response in us and a means of expressing how we feel. 2. There is no scriptural reference to "dancing in the Spirit" in any form. This is not a "gift of the Spirit." Paul writes these words: Rom 14:1-8 And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts. (2) One indeed believes to eat all things, but being weak, another one eats vegetables. (3) The one eating, do not despise the one not eating. And the one not eating, do not judge the one eating, for God received him. (4) Who are you judging another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand. (5) One indeed judges a day above another day; and another one judges every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. (6) The one minding the day, he minds it to the Lord. And the one not minding the day, he does not mind it to the Lord. The one eating, he eats to the Lord; for he gives thanks to God. And the one not eating, he does not eat to the Lord, and gives thanks to God. (7) For no one of us lives to himself and no one dies to himself. (8) For both if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Then both if we live, and if we die, we are the Lord's. I am NOT going to condemn the one dancing, even if I find it to be a sign of weakness in the faith. The one dancing to and before the Lord dances to and before the Lord. No -- rather, I will forbear the one dancing in hopes of sharing with them what the Lord has revealed and they will gain in inward wisdom and strength to know for themselves what they ought to do and be before the Lord Jesus Christ on their own before Him. I am NOT their judge -- He is. My hope is to share the faith as I know it of God, by His Spirit and that together we all will grow up to the head, which is Christ -- becoming transformed inwardly to His likeness. So, those who dance -- dance. Know that you will be accepted, loved and shared with. In the sharing, we will all grow up and grow stronger. That's my prayer and my hope. Romans 14:(3) The one dancing, do not despise the one not dancing. And the one not dancing, do not judge the one dancing, for God received him. If you all will allow me the liberty to change the words eating to dancing and see if the shoe fits? I think you really need to examine the difference from eating which is necessary to continue the body here and dancing which is an expression from the body. So to exchange concepts within the Scripture you have in fact changed context of original to something else! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Shouting - again this is variable. Sometimes it's excitement. "Shout joyfully to the Lord...." But sometimes it's intercession. I know that's a hard one to grasp until you actually feel this pressure build-up in your gut and you have to release it somehow - verbal shouts and groanings are the easiest way to do that! And yes, there are those that need discipline. But hey, you have children in the house, they are going to make a mess. Help them to grow and mature rather than stifle them. I've always enjoy your love for others and your attitude. Yet, those who I have read and watch that do these things, are considered to be elders in most cases. It is not like they are new in Christ, but misled to believe what they do is proper. If it was a child in Christ, there would be the ability to correct them. Unfortunately, when you deal with elders, you have much less territory to move in, for they are "settled"in their beliefs. Ok. But were they "young" with regard to the experience? You see, out culture is so ignorant of the spiritual realm, when the spiritual comes out, we don't know what to do with it. Or what to make of it. By the way, has anyone "barked" lately that you know of, or was that kept to the mid-90's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 21, 2012 Shouting - again this is variable. Sometimes it's excitement. "Shout joyfully to the Lord...." But sometimes it's intercession. I know that's a hard one to grasp until you actually feel this pressure build-up in your gut and you have to release it somehow - verbal shouts and groanings are the easiest way to do that! And yes, there are those that need discipline. But hey, you have children in the house, they are going to make a mess. Help them to grow and mature rather than stifle them. I've always enjoy your love for others and your attitude. Yet, those who I have read and watch that do these things, are considered to be elders in most cases. It is not like they are new in Christ, but misled to believe what they do is proper. If it was a child in Christ, there would be the ability to correct them. Unfortunately, when you deal with elders, you have much less territory to move in, for they are "settled"in their beliefs. Ok. But were they "young" with regard to the experience? You see, out culture is so ignorant of the spiritual realm, when the spiritual comes out, we don't know what to do with it. Or what to make of it. By the way, has anyone "barked" lately that you know of, or was that kept to the mid-90's? To be honest, I don't know if this is still going on as it use to. I haven't been watching for it. I think the 2000's brought out other things in it's place, but that is another beaten horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisMindinme Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/08/1963 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think you really need to examine the difference from eating which is necessary to continue the body here and dancing which is an expression from the body. So to exchange concepts within the Scripture you have in fact changed context of original to something else! Love, Steven With loving respect, the Paul is not pointing at the necessity of eating, but at the choices of what to eat or how much. In the realm of choice, dancing and eating are precisely the same thing. You choose what and how much to eat and for what purpose (e.g. respect of different types of foods before the Lord as some are seen as holy and others are not by some people, which was Paul's point). Dancing is the same: You choose to dance or not to dance and for what reasons and for how long and so on. The issue of the topic is one of choice before the Lord and respecting each other choices as ours to know or not know before God. Part of that respect is for the more mature to not disrespect others simply because they lack the same discernment. This is the same way we don't treat children with disrespect because they are not making adult-like choices. Again, the issue revolves around maturity and capacity to understand choices. Dancing is just this. The less mature will dance or not dance based on an immature discernment of their own nature. More spiritually mature people will dance or not dance for entirely different reasons. So, what was exchanged in the scripture still fits very well. Whether you dance or whether you don't, the choice is yours and not mine. What I think about your choice to dance or not dance, I will keep to myself because I am not your judge. However, I will focus on helping us both to grow in discernment and as we mature, I will hope that we grow in better capacity to choose what we do and say for better reasons before the Lord. The peace of His Spirit to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,304 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,509 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think you really need to examine the difference from eating which is necessary to continue the body here and dancing which is an expression from the body. So to exchange concepts within the Scripture you have in fact changed context of original to something else! Love, Steven With loving respect, the Paul is not pointing at the necessity of eating, but at the choices of what to eat or how much. In the realm of choice, dancing and eating are precisely the same thing. You choose what and how much to eat and for what purpose (e.g. respect of different types of foods before the Lord as some are holy and others are not, which was Paul's point). Dancing is the same: You choose to dance or not to dance and for what reasons and for how long and so on. The issue of the topic is one of choice before the Lord. I believe in the verbal plenary inspiration of Scripture... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisMindinme Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/08/1963 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Actually, anyone spiritual activity can be done for show - even preaching or reading the Bible. So, to catch someone dancing or speaking in tongues for show is not different than the making a show of fasting which Jesus rebuked. As for whether or not the Holy Spirit gives someone and unction to dance, I believe He does, just like there are times He gives us an unction to pray. And sometimes people just get so excited they simply can't stay still! Now how they dance is a different matter, if that has entered your concerns. Unfortunately, there's not enough teaching on appropriate and inappropriate dance. "The spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophet." The same with dance. We can be moved by the Spirit yet still mess up the output. Amen and amen! Well stated! This is precisely what Jesus meant when He pointed at what comes out of the mouth as being more important than what goes into it because what comes from the mouth is coming from the heart. Dancing is another expression of what is in the heart. You are so right to point out how preaching can be done completely from the flesh and the lusts of the flesh! Any action we take is based on the content and structure of our thoughts. Those thoughts are either based on and built to serve the lusts of the flesh and sin -OR- they are born more and more of the Spirit of God and we are growing in greater content of our thinking thus born! Our actions and words are merely outputs shaped and formed from the content of our hearts: What we think! Jesus called it a fountain of water bubbling up from the ground below. If the source of the water is poisoned, then the water flowing out will be poisonous. If the source is pure and sweet, the water flowing up and out will be pure and sweet. What is interesting to note is how you may not be able to discern the state of the water by simple appearance. Truthfully, the water may appear to be clean and pure when it is in fact poisoned! So, we either need some form of test to know (e.g. inspecting the fruit or results of the thinking of ourselves and each other) or we simply need to leave the fountain alone and let it live or die before God of itself and let God be the judge as He rightfully is. The moral of the story is: Look to your own life and heart first before you head off in judgement of another. God is still Judge of judges and will judge us in that Great and Notable Day of the Lord. So, to whom ought our deepest concern and respect be of and towards? Jesus, me thinks! Moreover, towards each other we ought be more bent towards grace, love, forgiveness, long-suffering, forbearance and mercy rather than scowling judgement over whether or not another is "dancing". Now, if the dancing is inappropriate in the assembly, the assembly and especially the God-ordained leader of that assembly has the God-given and order choice to ask that person to leave. God is not into wolves living with the sheep (although they do -- even if at the edges). A local body as a flock has a shepherd and a Chief Shepherd -- either one ought not and will not tolerate the wolves and will drive them out accordingly. Thus, if one is dancing in obvious motivation to the flesh, then that one ought to be excluded. Simple, eh? Peace in Christ and His Spirit to you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,304 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,509 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Question, what about 2 samuel 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. It seemed to me David danced with no regard to who was watching him except the Lord, The issue here was that David was a King and dressed common and dancing around with child like joy was disdained by the system in place as how a king should act but not to God Who received His Worship and Praise! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisMindinme Posted January 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/08/1963 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think you really need to examine the difference from eating which is necessary to continue the body here and dancing which is an expression from the body. So to exchange concepts within the Scripture you have in fact changed context of original to something else! Love, Steven With loving respect, the Paul is not pointing at the necessity of eating, but at the choices of what to eat or how much. In the realm of choice, dancing and eating are precisely the same thing. You choose what and how much to eat and for what purpose (e.g. respect of different types of foods before the Lord as some are holy and others are not, which was Paul's point). Dancing is the same: You choose to dance or not to dance and for what reasons and for how long and so on. The issue of the topic is one of choice before the Lord. I believe in the verbal plenary inspiration of Scripture... Love, Steven You are not yet seeing the point of the matter and that is presently alright. God is your revealing agent, not me. You appear to have taken a greater offence because I switched some words. I do hope you do not think I am considering what I wrote and being equal to scripture? What was written was simply to illustrate a point and not to somehow invent or concoct new scripture equal to what is clearly Spirit-derived. Oh yes -- I believe in plain spoken words like: "I believe in the completeness and fullness of Scripture ..." Perhaps you can ask yourself if saying "verbal plenary inspiration" is "showing off"? You are loved in Christ, brother Steven! The admonition above is simply an observation and not an accusation. You stand or fall before Christ and not me. Oh yes -- and lest we forget -- I stand and fall before Christ and not you. We are brothers in Christ and not co-judges of each other. Peace and Love in His Spirit to you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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