Did Jesus pay for ALL sin (past, present, and future sin)?

[allofgrace]

I do not believe there is any sin that has not been atoned for that the Christian will ever commit. Jesus not only paid the sin debt for ones past sins, but for every sin they would ever commit. He is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). That is not a license to sin which in itself is contrary to being a Christian. One comes to Christ for forgiveness and the authority to live a spirit filled life. They are new creations in Christ Jesus. Except in the model prayer where it says we are to say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, I do not recall another that says the believer is to ask for forgiveness of a sin. There are many places where it says we are to confess our sins and Christ is faithful who will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 John 1:9). So I confess a sin and thank Him for His cleansing me from all sins. If one will examine even the OT the Lord told them to confess their sin and make the proper sacrifice for that sin. Look up the word confess and read all the places it is used and you will discover this truth. If one has to recall ever sin they ever commit and repent of that sin, what happens if they miss one? Or can you miss two, or even 3? Are dead works from sins of the flesh, suppose one doesn't think so and never confesses it as sin? We know there are works which are wood, hay and stubble that will burn, one loses rewards, but not their salvation. We should confess all our sins, but I believe they are all forgiven in the one sacrifice of Jesus Christ. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. Heb 10:14

When you admit you have sinned, does it make any difference if you don't ask for forgiveness? You say to God, I have lied. Is that good enough? If you say you are sorry, and mean it, you have an expectation to be forgiven; therefore, by default, you are asking for forgiveness.

Yet, you are correct. The phrase "ask for forgiveness" is not in the bible, but the implication is.

The difference to me is that by confessing the sin and thanking Him for His forgiveness is that it is by faith that you are claiming what has already been given and not asking Him to do something that He has already promised. When one is in Christ they have already been perfected in Christ forever in their position in Him and if all believers knew that then we would not be discussing this question whether all sins are forgiven or not. Like any other obedience, we do so by faith, the just live by faith. But I will agreed that the liberty I believe is there, each will have to do as their heart will allow.

Edited February 24, 2013 by allofgrace

[OneLight]

I do not believe there is any sin that has not been atoned for that the Christian will ever commit. Jesus not only paid the sin debt for ones past sins, but for every sin they would ever commit. He is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). That is not a license to sin which in itself is contrary to being a Christian. One comes to Christ for forgiveness and the authority to live a spirit filled life. They are new creations in Christ Jesus. Except in the model prayer where it says we are to say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, I do not recall another that says the believer is to ask for forgiveness of a sin. There are many places where it says we are to confess our sins and Christ is faithful who will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 John 1:9). So I confess a sin and thank Him for His cleansing me from all sins. If one will examine even the OT the Lord told them to confess their sin and make the proper sacrifice for that sin. Look up the word confess and read all the places it is used and you will discover this truth. If one has to recall ever sin they ever commit and repent of that sin, what happens if they miss one? Or can you miss two, or even 3? Are dead works from sins of the flesh, suppose one doesn't think so and never confesses it as sin? We know there are works which are wood, hay and stubble that will burn, one loses rewards, but not their salvation. We should confess all our sins, but I believe they are all forgiven in the one sacrifice of Jesus Christ. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. Heb 10:14

When you admit you have sinned, does it make any difference if you don't ask for forgiveness? You say to God, I have lied. Is that good enough? If you say you are sorry, and mean it, you have an expectation to be forgiven; therefore, by default, you are asking for forgiveness.

Yet, you are correct. The phrase "ask for forgiveness" is not in the bible, but the implication is.

The difference to me is that by confessing the sin and thanking Him for His forgiveness is that it is by faith that you are claiming what has already been given and not asking Him to do something that He has already promised. When one is in Christ they have already been perfected in Christ forever in their position in Him and if all believers knew that then we would not be discussing this question whether all sins are forgiven or not. Like any other obedience, we do so by faith, the just live by faith. But I will agreed that the liberty I believe is there, each will have to do as their heart will allow.

I see asking for forgiveness humility. We see humility as a goal throughout scripture, to humble ourselves before God. Sometimes people assume too much when it comes to scripture and God. Nobody is saying that sins are not forgiven. What I saw was a statement by you claiming that we do not have to ask for forgiveness, which, to me, places to much on assumptions. There seems to be something missing in how you approach the forgiveness of sins, and that is being humble before God. There is humility in the words "I am sorry, please forgive me."

I see the question of the OP as a discussion on doctrine held by believers, not if they are forgiven for their sins.

[allofgrace]

I see the question of the OP as a discussion on doctrine held by believers, not if they are forgiven for their sins.

Did Jesus pay for ALL sin (past, present, and future sin)?

I thought a question mark came after a question, is that wrong? Even you admitted that the asking is not in the scripture and then say it places a lot on assumption. One does not confess assumption, they confess their sins is what I stated. To each their own.

Edited February 24, 2013 by allofgrace

[OneLight]

] I see the question of the OP as a discussion on doctrine held by believers, not if they are forgiven for their sins.

]Did Jesus pay for ALL sin (past, present, and future sin)?

I thought a question mark came after a question, is that wrong? Even you admitted that the asking is not in the scripture and then say it places a lot on assumption. One does not confess assumption, they confess their sins is what I stated. To each their own.

This is not a right/wrong issue. It is about what understanding do we walk away with when we read and study scripture. If one does not want to ask for forgiveness, they not ask of the Lord, not another person. Again, if one comes to inform me that they sinned against me, it is up to me to offer forgiveness with or without their asking. Both choices comes from the heart and shines light as to what is in the persons heart. which only God knows.

I will let the OP answer to what the true meaning was for the thread. I can only state that when I read "did Jesus pay the penalty for ALL sin, once for all time"I do not see the question if we need to ask for forgiveness or not .

[GoldenEagle]

If Christ paid for ALL sins including FUTURE sins, He would not need to give the Apostles the AUTHORITY to forgive sins. The fact that they were given this authority shows that sins still needed to be forgiven.

John 20:22-23 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained

Hello Selene,

Haven't seen you for a while on the boards.

Sorry, but I disagree the Apostles didn't (and no human beings today) have the authority to forgive sins. John 20:22-23 needs to be viewed in the light of several other passages. I believe there’s a reason why there are four accounts of the Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). Regarding forgiveness of sins...

Matt. 18:15-20

Dealing with a Sinning Brother

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

Regarding John 20:23 the Greek Word for "remit" is "aphiemi" and literally means "to send away." Vine's Expository Words in the Greek New Testament explains the use of this verb as such:

"Scripture makes clear that the Lord's Words could not have been intended to bestow the exercise of absolution which the Scripture declares is the prerogative of God alone. There is no instance in the New Testament of this act on the part of the Apostles. The Words are to be understood in a "declarative" sense; the statement has regard to the effects of their ministry of the gospel, with it's two-fold effects of remission or retention."

Further there is only Mediator between mankind and God. See passages below.

1 Tim. 2:5 -6

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Rom. 8:34

Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Heb. 7:25

Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

1 John 1:8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:1-2

1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Is. 53:12

5 But He {Jesus Christ} was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

Who are we to confess sins to? Answer: Jesus Christ.


Who is faithful to forgive our sins? Answer: Jesus Christ.


Who is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness? Answer: Jesus Christ.

God bless,

GE

[Fez]

Simple question based on your assertion Selene (I agree with GE's statements).

After Jesus died for all our sins, did the disciples after His death go round forgiving sins as they came across them? (how many scriptural examples are there post the Cross?)

And lastly, following your assertion that we had a bunch of sinners going around absolving people from sin, once they (the disciples, sinners all) , died, where did that leave us?

A Priest in a confessional who is a sinner? My next door neighbor who is also a sinner?

[Guest ninhao]

I have a question. Is there any remission/forgiveness of sin for a repentant unbeliever ?

Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

It appears God will only forgive a persons sin once they repent AND believe.

It also appears we can forgive eachother.

Mat 6:14-15 KJV For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This makes John 20:23 very interesting indeed. Considering the context of this conversation with the disciples, which seems to parallel with Mark 16:14-15 concerning the great commission, it appears that the forgiveness Jesus spoke of to the disciples was contained the in the acceptance of the message of repentance and forgiveness through Jesus Christ.

Mar 16:14-15 KJV Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

[GoldenEagle]

If Christ paid for ALL sins including FUTURE sins, He would not need to give the Apostles the AUTHORITY to forgive sins. The fact that they were given this authority shows that sins still needed to be forgiven.

John 20:22-23 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained

Regarding John 20:23 the Greek Word for "remit" is "aphiemi" and literally means "to send away." Vine's Expository Words in the Greek New Testament explains the use of this verb as such:

"Scripture makes clear that the Lord's Words could not have been intended to bestow the exercise of absolution which the Scripture declares is the prerogative of God alone. There is no instance in the New Testament of this act on the part of the Apostles. The Words are to be understood in a "declarative" sense; the statement has regard to the effects of their ministry of the gospel, with it's two-fold effects of remission or retention."

Who are we to confess sins to? Answer: Jesus Christ.


Who is faithful to forgive our sins? Answer: Jesus Christ.


Who is able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness? Answer: Jesus Christ.

God bless,

GE

Then you disagree with the Holy Bible. The biblical verse is very clear. After Christ gave them the Holy Spirit, He gave them the authority of forgive sins.

The King James Bible uses the word "REMIT." But if you prefer the NEW King James Version, then this is what it says:

John 20:22-23 And when He had said this, He breathed on [them], and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the [sins] of any, they are retained."

(Taken from the New King James Version).

Actually sister I simply disagree with your interpretation or view of this passage. I believe I've made my position clear. Changing the translation from KJV to NKJV or NIV doesn't change the wording in the original language - which is what is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit. The Greek Word in this passage for "remit" is "aphiemi" and literally means "to send away."

God bless,

GE

[Mcgyver]

I think that Christ paid for our sin past, present, and future...

When He died upon the cross it is recorded in John 19:28-30:

After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. (emphasis mine).

Two things here that I'd like to point out for consideration...

First is the phrase: "knowing that all things were now accomplished". What exactly was accomplished? I believe that it was God's redemptive plan that was accomplished...that is to say that God had now provided the way through the work of the cross for mankind to be reconciled to a Holy and Righteous God...and that this plan was complete.

This ties in directly with the second phrase: “It is finished!” (Tetelestai). Tetelestai was a Greek term of legal standing throughout the Roman empire. It was a word that was written on receipts, bills, etc. to denote that the payment had been made in full...that there was nothing left owing.

Let's say for example you bought a vase from a shopkeeper for 1 denarius. He would write τετελεστaι on the bill. If he later decided that the vase was worth 2 denarii and took you to the magistrate, all you had to do was present the bill with the word "tetelestai"...and nothing more would be required.

The bill had been paid in full...past, present, and future.

Now the scripture tells us in Ephesians 1:7: In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace. I don't see any quantification here...that only certain sins are paid for...simply that we have forgiveness of sin...period.

Again we are told in Romans 5:6-11: For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

If Christ did not die for ALL sin (past, present, future), then the above passage is meaningless and the cross has lost its efficacy.

[GoldenEagle]

You ask, "Did they go around forgiving sins?" Yes they did.....just as they went around healing the sick, raising the dead, and giving sight to the blind. Yes, we are all sinners, AND the Bible DOES tell us to forgive sins.......does it not??

Where is it recorded in the Bible that just as Jesus did on numerous occasions the apostles went around forgiving peoples sins. Is it in the Synoptic Gospels? In Acts? Curious.

I can think of a clear example of Jesus forgiving sins.

Jesus Forgives and Heals a Paralytic – Matt. 9:1-8, Mark 2:1-12, Luke 5:17-26

Also in Ephesians 4 we’re told not to grieve the Holy Spirit but in love forgive one another (7 times 70?) as God forgave us because of the atoning sacrifice by Jesus. To understand Scripture we must compare other Biblical passages to make sure we get the correct interpretation right?

Eph. 4:25-32

Do Not Grieve the Spirit

²⁵ Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. ²⁶ “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, ²⁷ nor give place to the devil. ²⁸ Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. ²⁹ Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. ³⁰ And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. ³¹ Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. ³² And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

What do you think?

God bless,

GE