Did Jesus pay for ALL sin (past, present, and future sin)?

[GoldenEagle]

The Holy Bible makes it very clear that Christ's death on the cross was to pay for only PAST sins. As for FUTURE sins......a sin is not a sin until it is committed. Then it becomes a sin.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

If Christ paid for ALL sins including FUTURE sins, He would not need to give the Apostles the AUTHORITY to forgive sins. The fact that they were given this authority shows that sins still needed to be forgiven.

Re: Past and Future sins

I see you keep going back to the passage in John. What do you make of John 1 in particular verse 29? Did John quantify his ascertion to say for them to look at the Lamb of God who takes away the {past} sins of the world?

John 1:29-34

The Lamb of God

²⁹ The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! ³⁰ This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ³¹ I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

³² And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. ³³ I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ ³⁴ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

How do you view this passage in Colossians 2 particularly verses 13 and 14? Forgiven all trespasses? What does that mean? Wiped out the handwriting of the requirements (perfection) that was against us. Sin was partially nailed at the cross?

Col. 2:11-15

Not Legalism but Christ

¹¹ In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins^[c] of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, ¹² buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

¹³ And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, ¹⁴ having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. ¹⁵ Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

And what about this passage in 1 Peter 3 particularly verse 18? Does it say “Christ also suffered once for “past sins”? Or simply does it say “sins”?

1 Pet. 3:18-22

Christ’s Suffering and Ours

¹⁸ For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us^[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, ¹⁹ by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, ²⁰ who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited^[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. ²¹ There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, ²² who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

Your thoughts?

God bless,

GE

[Montana Marv]

I think some are dwelling on different aspects of forgiveness.

Our we to forgive others, YES. Matt 18:21-22. How often; Up to seven times seventy. Do not let the sun go down until you have forgiven your brother, or if he has an issue with you. This forgiveness is to bring us back into a better relationship with our earthly brother. In the same way we are to ask forgiveness to our Heavenly Father so we can get back into a proper relationship with Him. Forgiveness here is about relationships; Do you want to be near or far. To your Heavenly Father and to your earthly brother. Sin creates seperation.

Heb 9:22 - Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. 2 Cor 5:21 - God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Christ paid the price for all sin. He died once on the Cross. He was the perfect sacrificial Lamb. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Did Christ die in vain. He paid the penality for our sin. Paid in Full. So if Christ has done that for us, should we not forgive our earthly brother. We cannot pay the penality, it is already done in Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Fez]

Selene, so let me get this right. I commit murder against someone you do not know, and I can come to you and ask for forgiveness and my sin is forgiven? Or did that stop with the death of the disciples?

And as an aside, your posts seem to be a bit defensive and frantic at the moment. (what with the colors, the bolded text, the big fonts, etc). Take a deep breath and slow down a bit.

[GoldenEagle]

You ask, "Did they go around forgiving sins?" Yes they did.....just as they went around healing the sick, raising the dead, and giving sight to the blind. Yes, we are all sinners, AND the Bible DOES tell us to forgive sins.......does it not??

Where is it recorded in the Bible that just as Jesus did on numerous occasions the apostles went around forgiving peoples sins. Is it in the Synoptic Gospels? In Acts? Curious.

You believe that Christ gave the authority to heal the sick despite the fact that it is not even recorded in the Bible that Jesus gave them that authority. Why? Because you see in the Bible that the Apostles went around healing the sick in the Acts; therefore, that was good enough for you. Now, we have Jesus' own words to the Apostles....giving them the authority to forgive sins in John 20:22-23........and you ask where is the forgiveness of sins?? You ask for the signs despite the fact that it is already recorded in Jesus' own words.

You believe more the deeds of the Apostles rather than Jesus' own words?? You did not recognize that "forgive" and "remit" have the exact same Greek word, but you also do not believe Christ's own words when He stated to the Apostles: "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Matthew 12:39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign!........

See posts my previous posts. I think Mcgyver made some good points in post as well. Scripture flows together don't you think?

I'm not asking for a sign. That is again a straw man argument sorry. I'm asking for Biblical evidence where a person forgave another person's sin exemplified such as what I quoted Jesus doing (Jesus Forgives and Heals a Paralytic – Matt. 9:1-8, Mark 2:1-12, Luke 5:17-26). We simply disagre on the interpretation, context, etc. of this passage.

I personally don't believe what you're trying to discuss is accurate. My opinion of course. Perhaps in Christ we'll just have to agree to disagree?

God bless,

GE

[Fez]

Selene, so let me get this right. I commit murder against someone you do not know, and I can come to you and ask for forgiveness and my sin is forgiven? Or did that stop with the death of the disciples?

And as an aside, your posts seem to be a bit defensive and frantic at the moment. (what with the colors, the bolded text, the big fonts, etc). Take a deep breath and slow down a bit.

John DID say that if you confess your sins, God WILL forgive you. And John wrote that statement AFTER Christ had already died and ascended to Heaven. Could you show me the biblical verse stating that God forgave FUTURE sins??

Confess them to who, through who?

I am aware of the scripture, I am trying to understand what your idea of confession is.

As to past, present and future sin, I still think you are mistaken in your belief of what the scriptures say.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

[GoldenEagle]

"Remit"

Original Word

afiemi

Word Origin

from (575) and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go)

Transliterated Word

Aphiemi

TDNT Entry:

1:509,88

Parts of Speech

Verb

Definition

to send away

to bid going away or depart

of a husband divorcing his wife

to send forth, yield up, to expire

to let go, let alone, let be

to disregard

to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic) 1c

of teachers, writers and speakers

to omit, neglect

to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit

to give up, keep no longer

to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person

to leave, go way from one

in order to go to another place

to depart from any one

to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned

to desert wrongfully

to go away leaving something behind

to leave one by not taking him as a companion

to leave on dying, leave behind one

to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining

abandon, leave destitute

NAS Word Usage - Total: 146 abandoned 1, allow 5, allowed 2, divorce 2, forgave 2, forgive 23, forgiven 23, forgives 1, gave...permission 1, leave 7, leaves 2, leaving 8, left 38, let 9, let...alone 6, let him have 1, neglected 1, neglecting 2, permit 6, permitted 1, permitting 1, send...away 1, tolerate 1, uttered 1, yielded 1

[allofgrace]

Mark 2:5-7 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” The scribes knew that scriptures stated that only God could forgive sins and that is why they were saying that Jesus was committing blasphemy. The passage in John 20:22-23 is teaching the same principle that is mentioned in Matt 18:18-20 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

The passage in John 20 is shortly after Jesus arose from the grave and appeared to these Apostles and He was telling them that when they proclaimed the gospel they had the authority to tell the people that whosoever believed on the Son of God could receive the forgiveness of their sins. The Holy Spirit gave them the power to perform miracles and wonders to be a witness that the Lord had authorized these men to preach the good news and that they could have forgive by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This was the beginning of the church age and after the book of Acts and the there are no more mentioning of some types of the events as in Acts. The principle is the same in Matt 18:18-20 when the church comes together to deal with an erring brother or sister in a dispute that when two or three are together and make the decision according to the word of God that it is bound in heaven and He agrees with their actions, and what they loose on earth He is in agreement with their actions. This is all dependent on following the leadership of the Holy Spirit and the word of God being in agreement with their actions. Every believer has the same authority when they follow the word of God and they tell a sinner what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10 or even as he told the jailer when asked what must I do, Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved and that implies their sins are forgiven them.

Edited February 26, 2013 by allofgrace

[Fez]

Selene, so let me get this right. I commit murder against someone you do not know, and I can come to you and ask for forgiveness and my sin is forgiven? Or did that stop with the death of the disciples?

And as an aside, your posts seem to be a bit defensive and frantic at the moment. (what with the colors, the bolded text, the big fonts, etc). Take a deep breath and slow down a bit.

John DID say that if you confess your sins, God WILL forgive you. And John wrote that statement AFTER Christ had already died and ascended to Heaven. Could you show me the biblical verse stating that God forgave FUTURE sins??

Confess them to who, through who?

I am aware of the scripture, I am trying to understand what your idea of confession is.

As to past, present and future sin, I still think you are mistaken in your belief of what the scriptures say.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

There is nothing in that scripture that says "FUTURE SINS." In that scripture, ALL sins could even mean "All your past sins."

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

As anyone can see, Romans 3:25 is much more SPECIFIC because it says "Sins that are PAST." Furthermore, John stated that if we confess our sins, God WILL forgive us. The fact that John stated that God WILL forgive us if we confess our sins........showed that our present sins are not forgiven UNTIL we confess them. So.....can you show me biblical scripture saying that our FUTURE sins are forgiven?

So.....can you show me biblical scripture saying that our FUTURE sins are forgiven?

Here you go....

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

You still have not answered my question about who you think we should confess our sins to?

[Fez]

Selene, you still have not answered my question about who you think we should confess our sins to?

[GoldenEagle]

Mark 2:5-7 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” The scribes knew that scriptures stated that only God could forgive sins and that is why they were saying that Jesus was committing blasphemy. The passage in John 20:22-23 is teaching the same principle that is mentioned in Matt 18:18-20 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

The passage in John 20 is shortly after Jesus arose from the grave and appeared to these Apostles and He was telling them that when they proclaimed the gospel they had the authority to tell the people that whosoever believed on the Son of God could receive the forgiveness of their sins. The Holy Spirit gave them the power to perform miracles and wonders to be a witness that the Lord had authorized these men to preach the good news and that they could have forgive by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. This was the beginning of the church age and after the book of Acts and the there are no more mentioning of some types of the events as in Acts. The principle is the same in Matt 18:18-20 when the church comes together to deal with an erring brother or sister in a dispute that when two or three are together and make the decision according to the word of God that it is bound in heaven and He agrees with their actions, and what they loose on earth He is in agreement with their actions. This is all dependent on following the leadership of the Holy Spirit and the word of God being in agreement with their actions. Every believer has the same authority when they follow the word of God and they tell a sinner what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10 or even as he told the jailer when asked what must I do, Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved and that implies their sins are forgiven them.

Good perspective. I think I agree.

Perhaps if you would clarify though do you agree with Selene's statement that the Apostles forgave sin and today people can forgive sin as well? Curious.

God bless,

GE