Montana Marv Posted March 29, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2012 Eleanor I am Pre Trib all the way. The last seven years are for the refining of Israel per Zech 13:8,9. But more so the last 3 1/2 years (Jacobs Trouble) Jeremiah 31:1,2 - At that time, declares the Lord, I will be the God of all the clans of Israel, and they will be my people. This is what the Lord says, The people who survive the sword will find favor in the desert, I will come and give it to Israel. v15 - This is what the Lord says; A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachael weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more. 1 Cor 15:52 - this only describes the process of the Resurrection, No time is given. Now look at 1 Cor 15:22,23,24 - For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. BUT each is his own turn (not all occur at the same time), Christ the first fruit, then when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed dominion, authority and power. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted March 29, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2012 Eleanor We meet the Lord in the Air. We do not meet Him when He sets His feet of the Mt of Olives. Two different events separated by time (7 years). BTW, the end of all things is Post Mill, after Satan can no longer influence people. He is gone forever. All things are put under His feet at this time. Death has been defeated forever. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted March 29, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted March 29, 2012 so when the church is raptured then does it make sense that god remove his church that has been fulfilling his will to do just what you say. and i know the difference on that two names. Why does it have to make sense? The Bridegroom will come for His Bride the way a Bridegroom traditionally always did in the Hebrew wedding tradition. He rides in and sweeps her away and takes her to His home to marry her there. It is God's PLAN. The Church age has an end and that is it. so a walking and talking olive tree shaped as a menorah will teach the word and the 144k that are taken up and sealed. theres no listen or mentioning of them being teachers just elders. that has the old testament connotation not ours. I know that for many people, prophetic scriptures are very difficult to understand. Perhaps you should let them go for a while, pray about this and ask the Lord to reveal afresh what He would have you know about these matters. It is reasonable when you have a basic understanding of prophecy, that things ring out with OT familiarity, because with the church absent, God reverts back to the time of the law with His precious people, the Jews, as they have yet seven years left on their time clock with God. odd no mention of teaching and thanks with that seven thing the jews will know from the date of the rapture(as it wont be so hid) when he comes Where does it say these 144,000 miss the Tribulation period? They come from it. They are Messiah-believing Jews. What were they sealed from? Right, the Rapture of the Church will have occurred before this time, and they will pretty well expect Jesus' sudden return, which is why scripture prophesies that those who know Him will rejoice when they see Him coming, and those who rejected Him will be horrified, and raise arms to try to conquer Him. tell me what changes in the teachings of matthews"no man knoweth the hour .." will be taught in the trib? on the two witness i suggest reading the book of zechariah. Will man really ever know the day and hour that the King will come? No, we only are given the general time by signs. Read Daniel, Joel and Zechariah and then try to tackle Revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted March 29, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2012 True - Jesus comes once to atone and once to stand on the Mount of Olives as victor. BUT He does come before the Battle of Armageddon to snatch away the Bride (Church). The purpose of the Rapture is to make the Jews jealous. This will cause them to search for the Messiah to the point that they accept the Anti Christ and only when the Messiah defeats the armies in the valley of Megiddo that they recognize Him as the one they turned against when He was here the first time. He came to them but they did not recognize Him and He turned to the gentiles to make the Israeli people jealous so that they would turn to Him - their first love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted March 29, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted March 29, 2012 True - Jesus comes once to atone and once to stand on the Mount of Olives as victor. BUT He does come before the Battle of Armageddon to snatch away the Bride (Church). The purpose of the Rapture is to make the Jews jealous. This will cause them to search for the Messiah to the point that they accept the Anti Christ and only when the Messiah defeats the armies in the valley of Megiddo that they recognize Him as the one they turned against when He was here the first time. He came to them but they did not recognize Him and He turned to the gentiles to make the Israeli people jealous so that they would turn to Him - their first love. Hi, Littlelambseativy, Scripture states that Jesus leaves heaven only twice, once to atone (2,000 years ago) and once to judge at the end of time (Heb 9:27-28). But you are adding a third leaving from heaven? He came once and will come again---to stay. The Rapture is not Jesus' second coming. It is the Bride's going to Him, praise God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted March 29, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2012 In essence He does leave heaven a third time but His feet do not touch the earth - He comes to meet the Bride in the air and escort her to heaven. I will probably start something else here but at this point Satan and his angel are still the powers and principalities of the air and Christ with His angels will escort the Bride through that dangerous area. So yes He does leave heaven so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncran Posted March 29, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2012 [ i have and i will go in the language that you like to take literally at your convience and show you a problem. next they will be messanic jews. show me that.? and its for their is neither jew nor greek , male nor female but righteous. so if part of the church and these jews arent then what did paul mean for their is one faith, one hope, one baptism? either all after the cross are the bride or they arent. im either of isreal or i am not!which i can easily verify my lineage to isreal.i carry the last name. so when i die and enter into heaven and the kingdom whom will be with? isreal or the church? zionism has no place in eschatology and that my friend is what the american church has done. its allways been about the cross and what the redeemer came to do.isreal is a vessel not the end of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldust59 Posted March 30, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 989 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 01/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/13/1959 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Again, we're way off track. What does SCRIPTURE say about the purpose of the rapture? It is to change the bodies of those believers who have not died to glorified bodies. I agree about the purpose of the "rapture" you state here. IMO, the teachings of today on this topic do not reflect what God intended us to see. Hidden within this false concept of a rapture is a separation of the 'church' & Israel. What do you see as false about: "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command (Come forth!), and the voice of the archangel and the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise (from their graves) first. After that, we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." What about this Scripture stating the rapture is false? 1Co 15:52 is not about the rapture. It is about the transformation to our glorified bodies. That is not the rapture. Hi Eleanor, I see nothing false in the scripture you quoted. I consider all scripture to be true, I just don't think we yet see the full truths to be found there. But I also believe that understanding is constantly being opened as we study with the Holy Spirit's assistance. We just have to be open to what He says & not rely on our own views. When do you see us being changed to our glorified bodies? Do you not connect that to the catching up? I have always seen these as speaking of same thing. Please explain what you see. Hi, goldust, It's really not about "what I see." It's about what Scripture specifically states. "For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable" (1Co 15:52). Scripture specifically states we will come out of our graves in glorified bodies. That is the resurrection. "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a loud command (Come forth!), with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (1Th 4:16-17) Scripture specifically states that the rising (resurrection) occurs just before the catching up to meet the Lord in the air (rapture) occurs. The full truths specifically stated in Scripture can be clearly seen here that the rapture immediately follows the resurrection in our glorified bodies. It's not a matter of anyone's view, it's a matter of what is specifically stated in Scripture, and therefore can be clearly seen. Thanks Eleanor, We are seeing the same thing here. I just wasn't understanding that you were not lumping the two together as "the rapture" as so many of us do. I do believe that sometimes there are layers of meaning in the scripture & not all things are just plainly stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted March 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [ i have and i will go in the language that you like to take literally at your convience and show you a problem. next they will be messanic jews. show me that.? and its for their is neither jew nor greek , male nor female but righteous. so if part of the church and these jews arent then what did paul mean for their is one faith, one hope, one baptism? either all after the cross are the bride or they arent. im either of isreal or i am not!which i can easily verify my lineage to isreal.i carry the last name. so when i die and enter into heaven and the kingdom whom will be with? isreal or the church? zionism has no place in eschatology and that my friend is what the american church has done. its allways been about the cross and what the redeemer came to do.isreal is a vessel not the end of it all. Are you serious? The Kingdom of God is not divided. However God does have time for the Gentile, doesn't He? In His Kingdom you will be among all who know Christ---Jew and Gentile. Ezekiel 30:3 For the day is near, Even the day of the LORD is near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles. Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Romans 10:19 But I ask, did the people of Israel really understand? Yes, they did, for even in the time of Moses, God said, “I will rouse your jealousy through people who are not even a nation. I will provoke your anger through the foolish Gentiles.” Romans 16:25 Now all glory to God, who is able to make you strong, just as my Good News says. This message about Jesus Christ has revealed his plan for you Gentiles, a plan kept secret from the beginning of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted March 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted March 30, 2012 True - Jesus comes once to atone and once to stand on the Mount of Olives as victor. BUT He does come before the Battle of Armageddon to snatch away the Bride (Church). The purpose of the Rapture is to make the Jews jealous. This will cause them to search for the Messiah to the point that they accept the Anti Christ and only when the Messiah defeats the armies in the valley of Megiddo that they recognize Him as the one they turned against when He was here the first time. He came to them but they did not recognize Him and He turned to the gentiles to make the Israeli people jealous so that they would turn to Him - their first love. Hi, Littlelambseativy, Scripture states that Jesus leaves heaven only twice, once to atone (2,000 years ago) and once to judge at the end of time (Heb 9:27-28). But you are adding a third leaving from heaven? He came once and will come again---to stay. The Rapture is not Jesus' second coming. It is the Bride's going to Him, praise God. The Bride meets him in the air. That requires a third leaving from heaven, which Scripture specifically does not allow (Ac 3:21). Jesus doesn't have to 'leave' heaven to reveal Himself anywhere, least of all the sky, gathering His Bride. Most of us have to let our tight hold on the reality of our finite earthly existence to truly take in what God's word tells us and comprehend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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