jasoncran Posted May 29, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2012 lol. i say that all the time. i have told that to my unit chaplain and this one. whats a christian wrestler to do?.. choke the heck out of you. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 365 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 6 Joined: 03/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2012 Do whatever you want but dont lie and say Jesus condoned violence. I refuted your statements for the benefit of the OP who really wants to know what Jesus' stance is on the subject of pacifism. I know you are already convinced that violence is the answer so theres no point in us going back and forth cause Im not budging nor will you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncran Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2012 so the law is a no go? that make no sense. if we are not to use violence and the govt does to keep peace and order per romans 13 then why are they called God's ministers? hmm? that is why god made govt for to contain evil. he gave them a sword to do that. this doesnt mean all laws are just.we are not to enable evil and if you aren going to stop evil who will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Robinson Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 903 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/01/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Many times pacifism is the "Sunday clothes" code word for cowardice. If a man's yellow, he knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted May 30, 2012 This is so much more complicated than first meets the eye. On the one hand Jesus tells the soldiers that they are to act justly in their duties. They were occupying forces and not conquest forces. In today's world the talk is about pre-emptive strikes and nation change always from the western point of view. Physically defending oneself has to be determined on a per-event basis. Many, many martyrs turned the other cheek and even watched as their love ones were murdered and never raised a hand to defend themselves or their loved ones and the church grew. The prime objective of the Christian is to spread the Gospel, be the instrument that God uses to let someone know about the grace, mercy, love of God. When the mention of Jesus telling the disciples to get a sword is brought up it is alway used in the context that we are to be self defensive. But when the time comes to defend the Lord from His "enemies" Jesus tells them to put the swords away. And even before that they come and tell Him that they have 2 swords, Jesus says they are enough knowing that they will use them in an attempt to protect Him to no avail. Paul could have tried to defend himself when the mob took him in Jerusalem, but he didn't. Paul was confident that the Lord would not allow him to die until his mission on earth was complete. God could have given him the strength of Samson and he could have kung-fu-ed the mob. Can you imagine that? When Jesus comes back it will not be His army that destroys the wickedness in the earth but the sharp sword that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. And pacifism could just be not cowardice but confidence that God can preserve us in the time of greatest temptation, the temptation to hold on to this life. Lu 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 30, 2012 When the mention of Jesus telling the disciples to get a sword is brought up it is alway used in the context that we are to be self defensive. But when the time comes to defend the Lord from His "enemies" Jesus tells them to put the swords away. And even before that they come and tell Him that they have 2 swords, Jesus says they are enough knowing that they will use them in an attempt to protect Him to no avail. That still begs the question of why Jesus told them to take their swords - or why the disciples even had the swords to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted May 30, 2012 When the mention of Jesus telling the disciples to get a sword is brought up it is alway used in the context that we are to be self defensive. But when the time comes to defend the Lord from His "enemies" Jesus tells them to put the swords away. And even before that they come and tell Him that they have 2 swords, Jesus says they are enough knowing that they will use them in an attempt to protect Him to no avail. That still begs the question of why Jesus told them to take their swords - or why the disciples even had the swords to begin with. The bigger question is what constitutes a just retaliation. What is the situation that we are to take up arms. I believe there are circumstances that allow for self defence. In a time of war, in the defence of the country there is a most definite need for a military. In WW1 and WW2 the US would not have gotten in the war if we had not been attacked directly. The need to have arms available what legitamate in the possibility of attack. Now we are debating pre-emptive strikes on countrys that have questionable probability of attacking us or our allies and the War on Terror is a fabrication designed to perpetuate a never ending conflict to promote fear and a reactionary mood. Jesus' response to Peter when he drew his sword was interesting for the Lord gives a reason for telling Peter to put it away. Mt 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. The whole situation with the sword was to magnify and glorify the Son of Man in the plan of God. You never hear of any of the disciples taking up a weapon of any sort after this instance. And Peter who did use the sword and was admonished at the crucifiction had this to say: 1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. Each circumstance needs to be evaluated in and of itself. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Larry, this doesn't actually address the questions I asked. It may address the question of whether or not the governement is using the military in a godly manner or not. But this addresses neither my questions nor the question of whether or not a Christian should serve as a soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Larry, this doesn't actually address the questions I asked. It may address the question of whether or not the governement is using the military in a godly manner or not. But this addresses neither my questions nor the question of whether or not a Christian should serve as a soldier. I did answer your question with how Jesus responded to Peter's use of the sword and Peter's admonition to those he wrote his epistle to. Peter learned from the situation that to trust in the sword is not as good as trusting in the providence of God. As for serving as a soldier, there are different circumstances. I don't know if I can address them all but I will address some. Keep in mind the present world situation and how that has bearing on this topic. Not currently in Military: Why would any christian want to learn how to kill, mame, destroy and be a slave for the corporate elite in destroying various groups of people around the world and still maintain a Christ centered perspective and desire to see people saved. If it was just about protecting this country as in the past that would change. The US military for the most part has become the one world police force and will be the arm of the antiChrist to control the masses. Currently in Military: I view this like Paul addressed slaves and servants. Serve in this capacity with your whole heart and do justly as Jesus told the soldiers that asked Him, but if you have the opportunity to be free choose that. There are currently more than enough worldly people to fill the purposes of the world military. The prime directive for the Christian is to preach the Gospel. If God is telling you to join the military He will also give you the desire to preach the Gospel whereever you serve, but make sure it is God telling you to go. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 30, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Larry, this doesn't actually address the questions I asked. It may address the question of whether or not the governement is using the military in a godly manner or not. But this addresses neither my questions nor the question of whether or not a Christian should serve as a soldier. I did answer your question with how Jesus responded to Peter's use of the sword and Peter's admonition to those he wrote his epistle to. Peter learned from the situation that to trust in the sword is not as good as trusting in the providence of God. I want you to learn not to trust in the sword. Therefore, I will tell you to take a sword in order for you to use it that I may rebuke you for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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