redroses42 Posted December 28, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 213 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 78 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2012 speaking in tongues is a part of praise and worship to God and a sighn to unbelivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 28, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thanks Newlight Of course the translation into the kingdom is spiitual but that does not remove the fact that the kingdom is not here now. Note very carefully the text you gave (Lk.17:20:21). The kingdom was not present when the Pharisees asked their question, vs. 20. Vs. 21 indicates the kingdom was not yet then for Jesus used the phrase "neither shall they say" which is future tense. And of course the kingdom is within the disciple, for to the Philippians Paul said "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" and to the Colosians Paul wrote "Christ in you, the hope of glory." The Kingdom the Pharisees were looking for was that of the physical ruling Messiah, a Messiah that would rule the whole world, which is why they missed the whole ministry of Jesus. They were not looking of salvation they way Jesus brought salvation. The ruling power Jesus brought was one of inner ruling over the old man, not over the whole world. Get your concordance out and search the word kingdom, before Pentecost in Acts 2 the kingdom is spoken of in the future sense, AFTER Pentecost its in the present tense, Col.1:13 etc., God bless If you had taken your concordance out, you would of realized that kingdom is the same all through the NT, G932, and would not of tried to make another member seem unprepared or unstudied. Perhaps you should take your own advice. If you truly want to increase your understanding, you will go beyond the concordance and into the Greek and Hebrew. Yet, one does not need a concordance to understand that Jesus is speaking in the present when He said "For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." ... "is" is not a future tense word, but a present tense word. By the way, try to get peoples names right. Purposely writing someones name wrong is so childlike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 28, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thank you OneLight for calling my attention to the fact that I have mis-spelled some names on this forum. I assure you it has not been "Purposely". Luke 17:21 has the verse in future temse, "neither shall they say--.'' The fact remains, prior to Acts 2, the kingdom (church) was not present. It is evident that in vss 20,21 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Was the kingdom in them? I agree that the Jews looked for a worldly kingdom and even Jesus' disciples had some problem with understanding the kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 28, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thanks Newlight Of course the translation into the kingdom is spiitual but that does not remove the fact that the kingdom is not here now. Note very carefully the text you gave (Lk.17:20:21). The kingdom was not present when the Pharisees asked their question, vs. 20. Vs. 21 indicates the kingdom was not yet then for Jesus used the phrase "neither shall they say" which is future tense. And of course the kingdom is within the disciple, for to the Philippians Paul said "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" and to the Colosians Paul wrote "Christ in you, the hope of glory." Get your concordance out and search the word kingdom, before Pentecost in Acts 2 the kingdom is spoken of in the future sense, AFTER Pentecost its in the present tense, Col.1:13 etc., God bless OneLight's name is plain for all to see. Secondly, when he says God Bless at the end of a post he means it. Thirdly, some of us have a modicum of discernment having been on this site for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 28, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thank you Fez for calling attention to the fact that I've mis-called a fellow contributer's name. It is not intentional. I have no reason to believe that when one writes "God bless" they mean it. I trust you believe it when I do the same. God bless w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 28, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thank you OneLight for calling my attention to the fact that I have mis-spelled some names on this forum. I assure you it has not been "Purposely". Luke 17:21 has the verse in future temse, "neither shall they say--.'' The fact remains, prior to Acts 2, the kingdom (church) was not present. It is evident that in vss 20,21 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Was the kingdom in them? I agree that the Jews looked for a worldly kingdom and even Jesus' disciples had some problem with understanding the kingdom. The kingdom reigns in the hearts of those who accept Christ Jesus, be it before or after Acts 1:1, as Jesus clearly stated. What you are focusing on is a future tense, but Jesus statement is present tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 29, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2012 May we take this one step at a time? I have stated I believe the 2 witnesses represent the 2 covenants. I gave some scriptural reasons for so believing. You state that you believe the 2 witnesses are 2 people. Perhaps so, but you gave no scriptural evidence. You state that the context says so, but, if so, where? Rev.11:3 says there are 2 witnesses. Vs.4 says the 2 witnesses are the 2 olive trees and the 2 candlesticks. I gave my understanding as to why they are the OT and NT. Before passing on to the 1,000 + days etc. I would like to hear your evidence for believing the witnesses are men. Thanks What you are trying to get us to believe is that two covenants are going to witness 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These two covenants will have the power to stop the rain, while they are prophesying, and they can turn water into blood. These two covenants will be able to smite the earth with plagues, and they will testify. These two covenants will be killed by the beast, lie dead in the street, and rise again. Who is the beast that kills them? What does that represent? This doesn't make logical sense to me. What exactly would that mean? What are we to take from both the Old and New Covenants dying and rising again, before they are taken to heaven? Butero--Revelation is a difficult text. Numerous are the suggested possible meanings of chapter 11.The one I lean to most is that the 2 witnesses are the 2 testaments. The OT said "to the law and to the testimony" and the word "testimony" is found in the text of chapter 11. I have endeavored to give my reasons for my position as to the identity of the 2 witnesses. I have suggestions for reasonably good answers to the questions you posted. However, to date, to my knowledge, no one has suggested to me who they think the 2 witnesses are if not the covenants. Until such is forthcoming I see no reason for me to continue. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 29, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2012 Thank you OneLight for calling my attention to the fact that I have mis-spelled some names on this forum. I assure you it has not been "Purposely". Luke 17:21 has the verse in future temse, "neither shall they say--.'' The fact remains, prior to Acts 2, the kingdom (church) was not present. It is evident that in vss 20,21 Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees. Was the kingdom in them? I agree that the Jews looked for a worldly kingdom and even Jesus' disciples had some problem with understanding the kingdom. The kingdom reigns in the hearts of those who accept Christ Jesus, be it before or after Acts 1:1, as Jesus clearly stated. What you are focusing on is a future tense, but Jesus statement is present tense. I understand the kingdon (church) was not established until Acts 2, not Acts 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 29, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2012 BUTERO: Everything in this thread has been off topic for sometime. You could have a new thread to address whether the two witnesses are real people, and one for the horse pics. There is also the matter of the Kingdom of Heaven. True....although I do believe a new thread would just be the old thread....right? I'm just wondering when the flying saucers will appear Hi Enoob57 Thanks for callng attention to an error I made which I did not intend. I wrote: "I have no reason to believe that when one writes 'God bless' they mean it." What I intended was: ''I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT WHEN ONE WRITES GOD BLESS THEY DO NOT MEAN IT." I failed to write into the sentence "do not". It was a tragic error on my part. w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webb Posted December 29, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 29, 2012 Thanks Ninhao for your consideration. I of all men certainly do not know the hearts of others, only my Lord does. God's speed w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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