gdemoss Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted June 17, 2012 After 6 days of creating, God had a world that was beautiful and easy to live in for man who needed only to tend Gods garden. Upon disobedience unto God, God cursed the earth for man's sake. Man would now have to deal with thorns and thistles. After some time had passed, man was found unacceptable to God and God in turn destroyed the world in which man lived, bringing in a flood upon the ungodly. From that point on man would have to deal with heat and cold as part of life. That same world that Noah came out of the ark unto is being kept in store reserved unto judgment by fire, but the people of the world have gained much knowledge in the things of the world and have declared that our world is dying and that it is all our fault because of the carbon emissions etc. That global warming needs to be addressed etc. And then you have natural disasters, they say are just part of the natural course of our world. Somewhere we left off understanding the righteous judgment of God upon the earth against the sin of man. We have forgotten who sends the rain because it has been labeled a natural process. The destruction of the world is a direct result of the sin of man against his creator. Those who continue in sin despite the revealed righteousness of God in Christ and the power of the quickening of the spirit are they who are responsible for the further destruction of our world. And God has said how he will deal with them. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Just as Satan moved Gods hand against Job without cause, man has brought the hand of God upon the world to destroy it and they who participate in such shall be destroyed themselves. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Just as Satan moved Gods hand against Job without cause, From what I understand, Satan only urged God to move against Job. It was Satan who actually did all the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer112 Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/06/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1960 Share Posted June 17, 2012 After 6 days of creating, God had a world that was beautiful and easy to live in for man who needed only to tend Gods garden. Upon disobedience unto God, God cursed the earth for man's sake. Man would now have to deal with thorns and thistles. After some time had passed, man was found unacceptable to God and God in turn destroyed the world in which man lived, bringing in a flood upon the ungodly. From that point on man would have to deal with heat and cold as part of life. That same world that Noah came out of the ark unto is being kept in store reserved unto judgment by fire, but the people of the world have gained much knowledge in the things of the world and have declared that our world is dying and that it is all our fault because of the carbon emissions etc. That global warming needs to be addressed etc. And then you have natural disasters, they say are just part of the natural course of our world. Somewhere we left off understanding the righteous judgment of God upon the earth against the sin of man. We have forgotten who sends the rain because it has been labeled a natural process. The destruction of the world is a direct result of the sin of man against his creator. Those who continue in sin despite the revealed righteousness of God in Christ and the power of the quickening of the spirit are they who are responsible for the further destruction of our world. And God has said how he will deal with them. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Just as Satan moved Gods hand against Job without cause, man has brought the hand of God upon the world to destroy it and they who participate in such shall be destroyed themselves. Gary The destruction of the world is a direct result of the sin of man against his creator. I thought the Lamb of God took away the sin of the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Who is destroying our world? We are, every one of us, no exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Just as Satan moved Gods hand against Job without cause, From what I understand, Satan only urged God to move against Job. It was Satan who actually did all the damage. Absolutely! God has not done anything himself as such but has ordered it done. He gave Satan permission to do that which he did and he also set limits and boundaries to how far he could go. Your absolutely correct. I thought the Lamb of God took away the sin of the world? God has also put all things under his feet, though we do not see that realized yet. Sin is still very prominent in our world and still being judged by God. Who is destroying our world? We are, every one of us, no exceptions. What does this look like Fez? I ask because I want to better understand your statement. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 plantarians (those who feel bad for using knives to harvest plants, so they only eat things that fall!). --Inter Amazing. I never heard of such a thing. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 17, 2012 To Fez, there is a lot of unsupported guilt in that, Fez. There are a few systems that are weakened locally, but "destroying the earth" is way over the top, and as I said above I doubt that is what John in Rev. meant. Don't use liberal/environmental guilt as a tool for the Gospel, because it validates something that has its roots in a very different source. This kind of misunderstanding comes from too much reading the Bible apart from its historic sense, deeply interlocked with the situations of the 1st century. God's destruction of the earth in 2 Pet. 3 is a very different question from the kind of environmental guilt that has people becoming plantarians (those who feel bad for using knives to harvest plants, so they only eat things that fall!). --Inter Do you drive a car, leave the tap on when brushing your teeth, leave lights on when not needed, eat take out from polystyrene containers, use high phosphate detergents (do you know what is in your detergents?) What do you do with your old cooking oil, fried anything lately? What temp is your housing hot water set to? You don't use contraceptive pills, but do you know where the chemical content of the urine of millions who do goes, and what it does? Etc.... No guilt just fact, and if you knew what I did for a living, you would understand that. And by the way, I am not a bunny hugger.... Just a pragmatist. We are destroying the world, and many of us who care, don't actually know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 To Fez, there is a lot of unsupported guilt in that, Fez. There are a few systems that are weakened locally, but "destroying the earth" is way over the top, and as I said above I doubt that is what John in Rev. meant. Don't use liberal/environmental guilt as a tool for the Gospel, because it validates something that has its roots in a very different source. This kind of misunderstanding comes from too much reading the Bible apart from its historic sense, deeply interlocked with the situations of the 1st century. God's destruction of the earth in 2 Pet. 3 is a very different question from the kind of environmental guilt that has people becoming plantarians (those who feel bad for using knives to harvest plants, so they only eat things that fall!). --Inter Do you drive a car, leave the tap on when brushing your teeth, leave lights on when not needed, eat take out from polystyrene containers, use high phosphate detergents (do you know what is in your detergents?) What do you do with your old cooking oil, fried anything lately? What temp is your housing hot water set to? You don't use contraceptive pills, but do you know where the chemical content of the urine of millions who do goes, and what it does? Etc.... No guilt just fact, and if you knew what I did for a living, you would understand that. And by the way, I am not a bunny hugger.... Just a pragmatist. We are destroying the world, and many of us who care, don't actually know how. If this is what the verse in revelation is speaking of then God is declaring that he is going to destroy us all then right? I don't think that this can be the case. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 17, 2012 To Fez, there is a lot of unsupported guilt in that, Fez. There are a few systems that are weakened locally, but "destroying the earth" is way over the top, and as I said above I doubt that is what John in Rev. meant. Don't use liberal/environmental guilt as a tool for the Gospel, because it validates something that has its roots in a very different source. This kind of misunderstanding comes from too much reading the Bible apart from its historic sense, deeply interlocked with the situations of the 1st century. God's destruction of the earth in 2 Pet. 3 is a very different question from the kind of environmental guilt that has people becoming plantarians (those who feel bad for using knives to harvest plants, so they only eat things that fall!). --Inter Do you drive a car, leave the tap on when brushing your teeth, leave lights on when not needed, eat take out from polystyrene containers, use high phosphate detergents (do you know what is in your detergents?) What do you do with your old cooking oil, fried anything lately? What temp is your housing hot water set to? You don't use contraceptive pills, but do you know where the chemical content of the urine of millions who do goes, and what it does? Etc.... No guilt just fact, and if you knew what I did for a living, you would understand that. And by the way, I am not a bunny hugger.... Just a pragmatist. We are destroying the world, and many of us who care, don't actually know how. If this is what the verse in revelation is speaking of then God is declaring that he is going to destroy us all then right? I don't think that this can be the case. Gary I don't think the verse is directly aimed at environmental issues. There is much more to it than that. However, we were made stewards of creation here. And we are failing. And that was my answer to the direct question of the post heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted June 17, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I'm not sure that the Rev text refers to a global environmental crisis. The main reason for this is that 'land' or 'earth' there is really social fabric. We Christians, for ex., are called to be salt of the earth, and I'd be quite surprised, with him talking to 1st century Judaism, if he suddenly launched into an environmental pitch! In fact, the Mt. 5 saying has concrete meaning relative to saving Israel from the awful events of the 6th decade. In that case, land would be very exactly the land of Israel in the first cent. situation, in which the Judaizers risked all to get rid of Roman occupation. More likely that 'earth' in Rev is the site of the other social decline already referenced in Rev like slavery, sexual sin, oppression, witchcraft etc. --Inter Why can't it be both? The awful events of the 6th century will be miniscule in comparison to the events of the great tribulation that is to come upon the whole earth. One prophecy fulfilled more than one time. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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