Guest yod Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Especially in KJV the word "perfect" means "mature" in old english used at the time of the translation, not "perfection" as we think of today meaning without blemish or mistake. He's simply saying that in maturity of time it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2012 hi one light, do you have any instances where Jesus is referenced in the neutar when in His unearthly form (following the normal greek grammer rules of course) I gave you the scripture. If being in Christ we are neither male of female, what dos that say about Christ? Understand that there is no need for gender when we are with God. We will not need to reproduce. If we are to be like Christ, not having gender speaks of the likeness of Christ. I doubt very much that anyone can find an instance so I will look at the verse presented which was used to question the sex of Jesus Christ in his unearthly body. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Clearly it is talking about us not being male or female. Not Jesus Christ. In context Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. I believe that it’s talking about that man is not over the woman in this sense of being the child of God. Not that we are sexless. What purpose would being male or female grant us in our next life? Are you inclined to believe that we will be married and have families? Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Though scripture does not come right out and say that there will be no gender in heaven, many do hint of it. Hi onelight, I would agree except for the fact it is in the present tense, there is no indication of it being future Galatians 3:28 There is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> Jew <2453> nor <3761> Greek <1672>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> bond <1401> nor <3761> free <1658>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> male <730> nor <2532> female <2338>: for <1063> ye <5210> are <2075> (5748) all <3956> one <1520> in <1722> Christ <5547> Jesus <2424>. TVM: Present 5774, Not Stated 5799, Indicative 5791, Count: 1617 The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense. Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present. Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? I also would like to know why you have gone down this path? What does being neutered have anything to do with not having a gender? hi onelight, of course Jesus is the same but what has that to do with His plan? is the world flooded every day? does He deliver the israelites from the egyptians every day. and neuter not neutered is the word that was being discussed. You can't compare Jesus not changing to how he works with His creation. He does not change, but how He deals with us does. Apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 hi one light, do you have any instances where Jesus is referenced in the neutar when in His unearthly form (following the normal greek grammer rules of course) I gave you the scripture. If being in Christ we are neither male of female, what dos that say about Christ? Understand that there is no need for gender when we are with God. We will not need to reproduce. If we are to be like Christ, not having gender speaks of the likeness of Christ. I doubt very much that anyone can find an instance so I will look at the verse presented which was used to question the sex of Jesus Christ in his unearthly body. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Clearly it is talking about us not being male or female. Not Jesus Christ. In context Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. I believe that it’s talking about that man is not over the woman in this sense of being the child of God. Not that we are sexless. What purpose would being male or female grant us in our next life? Are you inclined to believe that we will be married and have families? Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Though scripture does not come right out and say that there will be no gender in heaven, many do hint of it. Hi onelight, I would agree except for the fact it is in the present tense, there is no indication of it being future Galatians 3:28 There is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> Jew <2453> nor <3761> Greek <1672>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> bond <1401> nor <3761> free <1658>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> male <730> nor <2532> female <2338>: for <1063> ye <5210> are <2075> (5748) all <3956> one <1520> in <1722> Christ <5547> Jesus <2424>. TVM: Present 5774, Not Stated 5799, Indicative 5791, Count: 1617 The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense. Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present. Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? I also would like to know why you have gone down this path? What does being neutered have anything to do with not having a gender? hi onelight, of course Jesus is the same but what has that to do with His plan? is the world flooded every day? does He deliver the israelites from the egyptians every day. and neuter not neutered is the word that was being discussed. You can't compare Jesus not changing to how he works with His creation. He does not change, but how He deals with us does. Apples and oranges. i think i said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Especially in KJV the word "perfect" means "mature" in old english used at the time of the translation, not "perfection" as we think of today meaning without blemish or mistake. He's simply saying that in maturity of time it will happen. hi yod, good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 I am going to lay this out, if you want to pick it up then pick up, if you want to leave it laying then leave it laying, 1 Cor 13:10 says that when the perfect ONE comes, That Knowledge vanishes, if all the scholars can remember back Before satan tricked Eve, there was no knowledge of Good and evil with mankind. Knowledge is define from scriptures as knowing the difference between right and wrong, the completion of the canon of scripture did not vanish knowledge, but just the opposite with the scriptures knowledge increased. we will not have fullness as these scriptures in 1 cor. 13 imply , until the Perfect lamb of God returns and we will not need to know right from wrong and knowledge will vanish 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. KJV hi his disciple 3, it does not say perfect one. it says that which is perfect. not he who is perfect. i would not refer to Jesus as that. 1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. so do tell us from scripture when knowledge vanishes? could that be referring to behold the Kingdom of God is at hand?, could That, mean the new heaven and earth which will be perfect, maybe we don't know but one thing we can be sure of knowledge, didn't vanish with scriptures! hi his disciple 3, don't know exactly but this is how i see it. (this is a belief, not a presentation of facts so no one should feel obligated to believe me on this, but to me it makes sense) 1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. whether there be prophecies, goes with these verses, 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. whether there be tongues, they shall cease, goes with this verse, 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away., goes with this verse. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Grammatical gender does not always match natural gender. Little daughter - neuter gender strongs 2365 http://concordances.org/greek/2365.htm hi gdemoss, yes if i understand you correctly this was discussed by believe in him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2012 hi one light, do you have any instances where Jesus is referenced in the neutar when in His unearthly form (following the normal greek grammer rules of course) I gave you the scripture. If being in Christ we are neither male of female, what dos that say about Christ? Understand that there is no need for gender when we are with God. We will not need to reproduce. If we are to be like Christ, not having gender speaks of the likeness of Christ. I doubt very much that anyone can find an instance so I will look at the verse presented which was used to question the sex of Jesus Christ in his unearthly body. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Clearly it is talking about us not being male or female. Not Jesus Christ. In context Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. I believe that it’s talking about that man is not over the woman in this sense of being the child of God. Not that we are sexless. What purpose would being male or female grant us in our next life? Are you inclined to believe that we will be married and have families? Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Though scripture does not come right out and say that there will be no gender in heaven, many do hint of it. Hi onelight, I would agree except for the fact it is in the present tense, there is no indication of it being future Galatians 3:28 There is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> Jew <2453> nor <3761> Greek <1672>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> bond <1401> nor <3761> free <1658>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> male <730> nor <2532> female <2338>: for <1063> ye <5210> are <2075> (5748) all <3956> one <1520> in <1722> Christ <5547> Jesus <2424>. TVM: Present 5774, Not Stated 5799, Indicative 5791, Count: 1617 The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense. Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present. Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? I also would like to know why you have gone down this path? What does being neutered have anything to do with not having a gender? hi onelight, of course Jesus is the same but what has that to do with His plan? is the world flooded every day? does He deliver the israelites from the egyptians every day. and neuter not neutered is the word that was being discussed. You can't compare Jesus not changing to how he works with His creation. He does not change, but how He deals with us does. Apples and oranges. i think i said that Then why are you asking if He does the same thing every day? The word that was being discussed was perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) hi one light, do you have any instances where Jesus is referenced in the neutar when in His unearthly form (following the normal greek grammer rules of course) I gave you the scripture. If being in Christ we are neither male of female, what dos that say about Christ? Understand that there is no need for gender when we are with God. We will not need to reproduce. If we are to be like Christ, not having gender speaks of the likeness of Christ. I doubt very much that anyone can find an instance so I will look at the verse presented which was used to question the sex of Jesus Christ in his unearthly body. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Clearly it is talking about us not being male or female. Not Jesus Christ. In context Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. I believe that it’s talking about that man is not over the woman in this sense of being the child of God. Not that we are sexless. What purpose would being male or female grant us in our next life? Are you inclined to believe that we will be married and have families? Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Though scripture does not come right out and say that there will be no gender in heaven, many do hint of it. Hi onelight, I would agree except for the fact it is in the present tense, there is no indication of it being future Galatians 3:28 There is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> Jew <2453> nor <3761> Greek <1672>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> bond <1401> nor <3761> free <1658>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> male <730> nor <2532> female <2338>: for <1063> ye <5210> are <2075> (5748) all <3956> one <1520> in <1722> Christ <5547> Jesus <2424>. TVM: Present 5774, Not Stated 5799, Indicative 5791, Count: 1617 The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense. Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present. Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? I also would like to know why you have gone down this path? What does being neutered have anything to do with not having a gender? hi onelight, of course Jesus is the same but what has that to do with His plan? is the world flooded every day? does He deliver the israelites from the egyptians every day. and neuter not neutered is the word that was being discussed. You can't compare Jesus not changing to how he works with His creation. He does not change, but how He deals with us does. Apples and oranges. i think i said that Then why are you asking if He does the same thing every day? The word that was being discussed was perfect. actually i wasn't asking i was Preempting. so when you asked me does Jesus ever change what were you getting at? quote Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? Edited July 6, 2012 by asper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Especially in KJV the word "perfect" means "mature" in old english used at the time of the translation, not "perfection" as we think of today meaning without blemish or mistake. He's simply saying that in maturity of time it will happen. hi yod, good post awww thanks....that's really nice of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 6, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2012 actually i wasn't asking i was Preempting. so when you asked me does Jesus ever change what were you getting at? quote Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? They sounded like questions to me, so I asked back for clarification. They way you wrote your post was confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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