tongues

[OldShep]

I guess the question I would ask. Those that sound like they are speaking in tongues, what reason to fake it? I have been speaking in tongues for years, and hang around Spirit filled tongue talkers.

I can answer that question....

What reason you ask, one is to be accepted by the group who spouts off about not really being a Christian if you do not speak in tongues. Jim Jones, David Kroses, Benni Hinn, and a few more like them spout off such things. My own son admitted he memorized the words and just said them because every one else was. Others fake it because they think it places them above those who do not, is another reason.

False healing is also a big thing that has been latched onto by men that Love Money, and speaking in tongues is a way to sucker their victim in. I KNOW, for I HAVE, helped put a couple behind Bars. No I will not tell you their names.

Have you ever sat across a table from grieving parents that had lost their child to a cult? I have, and it was not a very nice seat to sit in. I felt powerless because I was, nothing would bring back their child. No words would bring back their child, no amount of jail time could every bring back their child. YES speaking in tongues is REAL in some cases, and in others, MAN or Satan has twisted it into evil.

Does it tell us in the Bible, that Satan can do this, I say yes....... For if Satan can appear as an angel of light, I'm sure he can spout off a few words in the ear of man, that would cause a young believer to turn away from the one True God and start following the man or women preaching the words that Satan was feeding them. Testing the spirit is watching the spirits and there are some that fall flat on their faces as they try to walk the talk.

My question is, why on Earth, do so many tongue speaking Christians, feel like they are being attacked, if someone questions the legitimacy of the event? I'm sure that Jesus understands the nature of the Earth today and is very aware of False Teachers and all the rest.

[Guest Butero]

I guess the question I would ask. Those that sound like they are speaking in tongues, what reason to fake it? I have been speaking in tongues for years, and hang around Spirit filled tongue talkers.

I can answer that question....

What reason you ask, one is to be accepted by the group who spouts off about not really being a Christian if you do not speak in tongues. Jim Jones, David Kroses, Benni Hinn, and a few more like them spout off such things. My own son admitted he memorized the words and just said them because every one else was. Others fake it because they think it places them above those who do not, is another reason.

False healing is also a big thing that has been latched onto by men that Love Money, and speaking in tongues is a way to sucker their victim in. I KNOW, for I HAVE, helped put a couple behind Bars. No I will not tell you their names.

Have you ever sat across a table from grieving parents that had lost their child to a cult? I have, and it was not a very nice seat to sit in. I felt powerless because I was, nothing would bring back their child. No words would bring back their child, no amount of jail time could every bring back their child. YES speaking in tongues is REAL in some cases, and in others, MAN or Satan has twisted it into evil.

Does it tell us in the Bible, that Satan can do this, I say yes....... For if Satan can appear as an angel of light, I'm sure he can spout off a few words in the ear of man, that would cause a young believer to turn away from the one True God and start following the man or women preaching the words that Satan was feeding them. Testing the spirit is watching the spirits and there are some that fall flat on their faces as they try to walk the talk.

My question is, why on Earth, do so many tongue speaking Christians, feel like they are being attacked, if someone questions the legitimacy of the event? I'm sure that Jesus understands the nature of the Earth today and is very aware of False Teachers and all the rest.

I don't have any problem with people questioning anything? That is especially true when it comes to messages given out in tongues. At the same time, I believe it is important to use caution when attacking any works of the Spirit. The religious crowd did that, and Jesus warned them that what they were doing was blasphemy and would never be forgiven. But once again, we should always be cautious. Some like to try to scare people into accepting everything at face value for fear of committing the unpardonable sin.

[Guest Norrin Radd]

Are all those speaking in tongues considered legit?

Unless one gives an interpretation that blasphemes God, there's little reason to suppose otherwise.

What percentage of the people that speak in tongues is actually from God do you think?

Almost all. After all, even in Corinth where many in the church were using "tongues" disruptively, Paul never hinted that any of them were not genuine.

What sin is a person guilty of who doesn’t actually have the gift of tongues yet thinks that he/she does and goes about speaking in tongues?

None.

Why is there so many different belief systems that speak in tongues?

Why not? There are many that practice prayer and have writings they view as sacred scripture.

I do not wish this topic to become a discussion on whether true tongues exist today but one that questions the validity of so many who claim this gift.

Why does that bother you? Why does it not bother you more that relatively FEW people speak in tongues, when there is credible Scriptural evidence that doing so was normative in the early Church?

[Guest Norrin Radd]

Had my first experience with a church that had this going on in it the other day...and I left when people started being 'touched' by whom I presume were the elders and falling to the floor. ...

That's been a common (but not universal or consistent) practice among Pentecostals for close to a hundred years. Since there is no Biblical prohibition against it, I don't hastily oppose it. But since there is also no Biblical precedent for it, I'm leery when it becomes a regular occurrence, or is actively sought or encouraged.

[Guest Norrin Radd]

When Peter was preaching to the multitudes the miracle appears to be in the hearing and not in the speaking.

Then why does Acts 2:4 link the activity of the Spirit with the speaking, while 2:5 suggests no such Spirit activity with the hearing?

And remember tongues are actually meant for the unbeliever.

That is not what Scripture says.

But anyway...

This is the only way I experienced it where tongues were real and the only way it can be verified.....In 73, I was in a Pentecostal service in a military chapel in West Germany. There were three Muslim's from Crete that we were helping out whose visa's had expired. During the service someone spoke in tongues and it didn't sound like a bunch of vain babblings like I would typically hear from Pentecostal's. The language I heard had structure to it.

I wonder what sort of utterances you perceive as "babblings." I've heard a lot of tongues-speaking. None ever sounded significantly more babble-like than, e.g., people speaking Chinese or Spanish in very rapid-fire fashion, or cantors chanting Latin or Greek or Hebrew.

The three Muslim's were astonished. The tongues speaker, who the Muslim's knew didn't speak Greek, heard the tongues spoken in Greek and understood what he said. The interpreter who didn't know Greek either, interpreted in English what the tongues speaker said in Greek. Two Muslim's did speak English enough to hear the interpretation which was the same message they had heard spoken in Greek.

That was the only time in my life I was edified by someone speaking in tongues and I've heard them at least a hundred times. I was edified because we were all astonishednd.

As far as praying in tongues goes I've heard some pretty bad ones and there's no way to verify it. It was just the repetition of the same syllable.

If praying in tongues are real they are for your own personal prayer life anyway and not to be spoken in public.

The testimony of Acts 2, 10, 19, 1 Cor. 14, Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19 & 6:18, and Jude 1:20 is that praying, praising, and singing in tongues is fine even in public, even uninterpreted, as long as it doesn't lead to tumult. In a church prone to disorder, Paul's rules in 1 Cor. 14 are useful.

Anybody can speak in tongues and anybody can interpret. It''s too easy to fake it. It must be proven that it indeed was the Holy Spirit administering it.

It is equally true that anyone can claim to be prophesying.

I don't believe in them the way most people do. I know that tongues are unnecessary in most cases and very necessary when the gospell was just beginning.

If you mean they were necessary for preaching the Gospel, you have things backwards. There is no Biblical evidence of tongues ever being used to preach. There was no need. Most people were functional polyglots. In Jerusalem at Pentecost, everyone present would have been at least conversant in either Greek or Aramaic, or both. Many also spoke their own native languages. Some would have had working knowledge of either Latin or OT Hebrew. Beyond Jerusalem, anyone living in a region that was part of the Roman Empire would have had working knowledge of Greek. It would have been rare to encounter a potential convert and not have anyone in the missionary group who could translate.

1 Corinthians 13:1 ¶Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

The entire chapter is a difficult one. And Paul was clear that speaking in tongues isn't that desirable in church unless there is a interpreter. That interpreter should be understood as one of an earthly language. To interpret an angelic language makes no sense to me because there's no way of verifying it and it's unnecessary since speaking in tongues in church is meant as a sign for unbelievers. And for it to be a sign it must occur the way I described and experienced it and must be verifyable.

If uninterpreted tongues-speaking in non-private situations is ALWAYS undesirable, then Acts 2, 10, and 19 were all "out of order." Since Paul was personally present at the last of those, Luke should have recorded him rebuking the Ephesians for their disorderly behavior.

[gdemoss]

We as people all speak by a spirit whether it be in our native tongue or in a foreign tongue of men or that of angels. We may speak by the Holy Spirit, and if given utterance it may be in a language unknown to us. But the question seems to be, can this be done by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit? Why not? Are there not an untold number of devils out there? Do they not each have an angelic tongue they speak? Could they not speak using their own language through your mortal flesh? One of the biggest problems in Christianity is the misunderstanding of how closely we interact with the spiritual realm. Our bodies are just houses and can be dwelt in by spirits other than the Holy Spirit, just as Paul had a thorn in the flesh who was an angel of Satan's. Paul also claimed to believe that he had the spirit of God as well. Why do you think we are told to be quick to hear and slow to speak? For more than one reason but one is that we must watch over our mouth to guard against allowing the wrong spirit to have dominion there.

Of course there are those who believe that since we are sealed by the Holy Spirit that no other spirit can enter us. I believe they are more likely in danger of being controlled by an evil spirit than those who understand that we are at war internally against principalities and powers and rulers of darkness in high places and that our weapons of warfare are not carnal. We are the keepers of the temple who must keep the temple pure and undefiled, not fornicating or committing adultery with other spirits. Purifying our hearts to worship only the one true God through his spirit and truth.

As for what percentage is what I can only give guesses based upon scripture. If many are called but few are chosen. If most do not enter in at the straight gate. If all do not speak in tongues of those number. if the end times is supposed to be wrought with perilous times of diverse iniquitous behaviors within the church. If Satan will deceive many through lying signs and wonders. I believe the percentage of true tongue speakers is probably very low.

When dealing with a confessed brother or sister who speaks in tongues, I don't give thought to the topic of tongues with them but seek to understand whether or not they espouse true doctrine and walk the walk of faith in their life. I am more apt to believe that they are experiencing biblical tongues through the Holy Spirit if it is evidenced through their lives that they are actually living by said Holy Spirit and walking in love, joy, peace, patience, self-control, gentleness, goodness, meekness and faith. My question is if they are being controlled in such a way by the Holy Spirit to cause them to speak in ways that they cannot on their own they why can't they walk in ways that are of God? The same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead quickens my mortal flesh everyday and gives me power to resist sin (I am not 100% successful as on occasion I do succumb to sin and am beset by it by giving in to a spirit of fear, malice or other).

In the end I take up Paul's argument and say seek the gifts but I show you a better way. That way is love, unfeigned love. When you truly love someone who is unlovable they cannot explain or resist wondering why you do such things. Love those who speak in tongues, both legitimate and illegitimate.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Guest Norrin Radd]

I guess the question I would ask. Those that sound like they are speaking in tongues, what reason to fake it? I have been speaking in tongues for years, and hang around Spirit filled tongue talkers.

I can answer that question....

What reason you ask, one is to be accepted by the group who spouts off about not really being a Christian if you do not speak in tongues. Jim Jones, David Kroses, Benni Hinn, and a few more like them spout off such things.

Benny Hinn can be plenty loopy, but he is not in the same cultic class as Jim Jones or David Koresh (I assume that's who you meant by "David Kroses.") I *highly* doubt he preaches one is not really a Christian unless one speaks in tongues. This belief is not at all common among traditional Pentecostals.

...

My question is, why on Earth, do so many tongue speaking Christians, feel like they are being attacked, if someone questions the legitimacy of the event? I'm sure that Jesus understands the nature of the Earth today and is very aware of False Teachers and all the rest.

One rather detached, intellectual reason is that to many of us, Scripture is unmistakably clear in teaching that the ability is intended for every believer, and so it seems bizarre that some are so troubled by it.

Another more emotional reason is that by its nature and purpose, tongues-speaking can be an intimate personal experience. Wouldn't you feel "attacked" if someone questioned the legitimacy of your prayer life? What about if someone questioned the legitimacy of the affection you express for your wife or mother?

[Guest Norrin Radd]

Are all those speaking in tongues considered legit?

Unless they give evidence to the contrary by doing something like issuing an interpretation that blasphemes God.

What percentage of the people that speak in tongues is actually from God do you think?

Almost all of them. Even in Corinth, where many in the church were using the ability in a disruptive way, Paul did not question the legitimacy of the gift in any of them.

What sin is a person guilty of who doesn’t actually have the gift of tongues yet thinks that he/she does and goes about speaking in tongues?

None.

Why is there so many different belief systems that speak in tongues?

Why not? There are many belief systems that practice prayer and have writings they consider sacred scripture.

[gdemoss]

Mike, thanks for pointing out the John 7 verses. I overlooked them when I was gathering verses to help explain to people why there is so much error in the church today. Another issue with what you have brought up is confusion about what doing the will of God looks like in a believers life. There are those who honestly believe they are doing the will of God in their life but are deceived. They keep perfect obedience to a lie they believe is the truth and continue in error.

I agree with Mike, tongues are real, healing is real, the only way to discern true from fake is through doing the will of God in your life.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[asper]

When Peter was preaching to the multitudes the miracle appears to be in the hearing and not in the speaking.

Then why does Acts 2:4 link the activity of the Spirit with the speaking, while 2:5 suggests no such Spirit activity with the hearing?

And remember tongues are actually meant for the unbeliever.

That is not what Scripture says.

But anyway...

This is the only way I experienced it where tongues were real and the only way it can be verified.....In 73, I was in a Pentecostal service in a military chapel in West Germany. There were three Muslim's from Crete that we were helping out whose visa's had expired. During the service someone spoke in tongues and it didn't sound like a bunch of vain babblings like I would typically hear from Pentecostal's. The language I heard had structure to it.

I wonder what sort of utterances you perceive as "babblings." I've heard a lot of tongues-speaking. None ever sounded significantly more babble-like than, e.g., people speaking Chinese or Spanish in very rapid-fire fashion, or cantors chanting Latin or Greek or Hebrew.

The three Muslim's were astonished. The tongues speaker, who the Muslim's knew didn't speak Greek, heard the tongues spoken in Greek and understood what he said. The interpreter who didn't know Greek either, interpreted in English what the tongues speaker said in Greek. Two Muslim's did speak English enough to hear the interpretation which was the same message they had heard spoken in Greek.

That was the only time in my life I was edified by someone speaking in tongues and I've heard them at least a hundred times. I was edified because we were all astonishednd.

As far as praying in tongues goes I've heard some pretty bad ones and there's no way to verify it. It was just the repetition of the same syllable.

If praying in tongues are real they are for your own personal prayer life anyway and not to be spoken in public.

The testimony of Acts 2, 10, 19, 1 Cor. 14, Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19 & 6:18, and Jude 1:20 is that praying, praising, and singing in tongues is fine even in public, even uninterpreted, as long as it doesn't lead to tumult. In a church prone to disorder, Paul's rules in 1 Cor. 14 are useful.

Anybody can speak in tongues and anybody can interpret. It''s too easy to fake it. It must be proven that it indeed was the Holy Spirit administering it.

It is equally true that anyone can claim to be prophesying.

I don't believe in them the way most people do. I know that tongues are unnecessary in most cases and very necessary when the gospell was just beginning.

If you mean they were necessary for preaching the Gospel, you have things backwards. There is no Biblical evidence of tongues ever being used to preach. There was no need. Most people were functional polyglots. In Jerusalem at Pentecost, everyone present would have been at least conversant in either Greek or Aramaic, or both. Many also spoke their own native languages. Some would have had working knowledge of either Latin or OT Hebrew. Beyond Jerusalem, anyone living in a region that was part of the Roman Empire would have had working knowledge of Greek. It would have been rare to encounter a potential convert and not have anyone in the missionary group who could translate.

1 Corinthians 13:1 ¶Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

The entire chapter is a difficult one. And Paul was clear that speaking in tongues isn't that desirable in church unless there is a interpreter. That interpreter should be understood as one of an earthly language. To interpret an angelic language makes no sense to me because there's no way of verifying it and it's unnecessary since speaking in tongues in church is meant as a sign for unbelievers. And for it to be a sign it must occur the way I described and experienced it and must be verifyable.

If uninterpreted tongues-speaking in non-private situations is ALWAYS undesirable, then Acts 2, 10, and 19 were all "out of order." Since Paul was personally present at the last of those, Luke should have recorded him rebuking the Ephesians for their disorderly behavior.

Hi norin radd,

Been looking over some responses and ran across your reference to the following verses and something puzzled me.

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Where is tongues mentioned in these verses?

Edited July 16, 2012 by asper