....and the "dead" in Christ shall rise first (1 Thessalonians

[Bold Believer]

It is a most confusing passage to say the least. The word for sleep has been used to speak of those who are literally sleeping as well as those who are dead and buried (Matt 27:52 and 28:15). If those don't persuade consider Jesus speaking about Lazarus. He said he was sleeping then had to clarify by saying that he was actually dead because the disciples thought he meant that he was actually asleep. This first word is never used to state someone is asleep unto righteousness and therefore dead in trespass and sin. But the other word for sleep is used to mean physical sleep and asleep to righteousness as well as contrasted with physical death.

Those who are asleep here are physically dead but alive awaiting resurrection.

Gary

Physically dead, but spiritually alive in Christ, yes.

There are a couple of different words for 'death' also. Nekros/necros usually meaning physical death, and thanatos, which appears to have a meaning beyond that of mere body-death.

[He giveth more grace]

The body is not redeemed, it is corruption, there is no soul sleep, the spirits of the dead in Christ are in heaven. Them will Christ bring with him to the clouds to be reunited with their glorified body (that is when the redemption of the body takes place. Then Christ with gather the living in Christ up with him and with the saints he took with him, to live for evermore in his presence.

[Bold Believer]

The body is not redeemed, it is corruption, there is no soul sleep, the spirits of the dead in Christ are in heaven. Them will Christ bring with him to the clouds to be reunited with their glorified body (that is when the redemption of the body takes place. Then Christ with gather the living in Christ up with him and with the saints he took with him, to live for evermore in his presence.

You accidently contradicted yourself. I figure the OLD body (the blood-powered body we now live in) is what you meant. We get a NEW body (old goes into the ground and dies, new springs up at the Last Day).

[Guest man]

Daniel 12

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,

The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;

And there shall be a time of trouble,

Such as never was since there was a nation,

Even to that time.

And at that time your people shall be delivered,

Every one who is found written in the book.

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,

Some to everlasting life,

Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 Those who are wise shall shine

Like the brightness of the firmament,

And those who turn many to righteousness

Like the stars forever and ever.

[He giveth more grace]

The body is not redeemed, it is corruption, there is no soul sleep, the spirits of the dead in Christ are in heaven. Them will Christ bring with him to the clouds to be reunited with their glorified body (that is when the redemption of the body takes place. Then Christ with gather the living in Christ up with him and with the saints he took with him, to live for evermore in his presence.

You accidently contradicted yourself. I figure the OLD body (the blood-powered body we now live in) is what you meant. We get a NEW body (old goes into the ground and dies, new springs up at the Last Day).

There is not contradiction, when we are in the body and in the grave the body in not redeemed, only when the returning spirits are reunited with their bodies is the body glorified.

[Bold Believer]

The body is not redeemed, it is corruption, there is no soul sleep, the spirits of the dead in Christ are in heaven. Them will Christ bring with him to the clouds to be reunited with their glorified body (that is when the redemption of the body takes place. Then Christ with gather the living in Christ up with him and with the saints he took with him, to live for evermore in his presence.

You accidently contradicted yourself. I figure the OLD body (the blood-powered body we now live in) is what you meant. We get a NEW body (old goes into the ground and dies, new springs up at the Last Day).

There is not contradiction, when we are in the body and in the grave the body in not redeemed, only when the returning spirits are reunited with their bodies is the body glorified.

Ah, I see what you mean. Agreed. As long as the current body is in the ground, it suffers corruption, until the Last Day.

[Stan53]

THE “DEAD IN CHRIST” SHALL RISE FIRST

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16). THEN we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The “dead in Christ” rise first, then we are “caught-up”.

Who are the “dead in Christ” that rise first? This Greek word for “dead” can mean physically dead (deceased), or spiritually dead, as the prodigal son was “dead” until he repented and returned to his father. We see both connotations being used in the following. "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead” (Matthew 8:22).

By the next verse we see that even though believers are physically alive, we can be spiritually dead.

"I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead (Revelation 3:1).

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death (1 John 3:14). Believers pass from death unto life by being made alive together with Christ when forgiven of all trespasses by repenting and confessing their sins. We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: (John 1:12). Receiving the Spirit of Christ gives us the right to be born of GOD as a child of GOD.

…when we were dead in trespasses, (GOD) made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), (Ephesians 2:5). We are justified and saved by being made alive together with the Spirit of Christ.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, (Colossians 2:13). We are justified and saved by being made alive together with Christ when we are forgiven of all trespasses by repenting and confessing our sins.

It shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the lord shall be saved (acts 2:21).

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5).

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother (1 John 3:9-10).

And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment (1 John 3:23).

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only (James 2:24).

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also (James 2: 26).

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' (Matthew 25:34-36).

Judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead (James 2:13-17).

If you know He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him (1 John 2:29)

…..and the dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16b).

Buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead (Colossians 2:12). Is this baptism of the Spirit or water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ?

For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven (Mark 2:25). They neither marry nor are given in marriage. Is this a mate without wedlock or celibacy? What to you believe this means and why? Are we living as under the Law if we believe marriage by wedlock is a prerequisite to a relationship?

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:19).

If anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins (James 5:19-20).

The word DEAD always refers to a physical death. It does NOT refer to a meta-physical death. It was first used in Gen 2:17. God's original intention was that we, as mankind, would live forever.

He warned Adam and Adam warned Eve and that was as far as it got. Eve failed and condemned mankind to death. To God's Glory, He already had a plan of salvation in place. It is a common misconception that unsaved people are spiritually dead. We will NEVER be spiritually dead. The Bible clearly shows that those who's name is NOT written in the book of LIFE, will die the second death (physical) and be separated from God for eternity, which will be their punishment. We as believers, will LIVE forever. Eternal LIFE.

When Christ said, "Let the dead bury their dead", it was a statement of fact. Those without God are in effect dead, just like Adam and Eve were when they ate from the Tree of Knowledge. They just didn't lie down for another 900 years. When you read a verse that says, "You were DEAD in your sins", it means at the point before salvation, that person was effectively dead, just as we are effectively saved. That salvation doesn't have effect in our lives until the day that Jesus comes again. THEN we will actually receive our salvation from sin, which is our ETERNAL LIFE with Jesus. At that time, unbelievers will receive their permanent physical death and meta-physical Eternal damnation.

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and

effective

, sharper than any two-edged sword, cutting through so as to divide soul from spirit, joints from marrow. It is even able to discern the thoughts and deliberations of the heart.

[Guest Butero]

I have always been perplexed about the dead rising first statement because Jesus said he is God of the living and mentioned Abraham. And when he died on the cross did not the dead rise then? So I am left believing that those dead in Christ have already risen.

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When a Christian dies, their soul leaves their body, and the body sleeps. The soul goes to the presence of God and remains with him till Christ returns. At that moment, the soul will be reunited with the body, which will be raised, but it won't be like it is today. It will be a glorified body. The closest thing you can find in scripture that will give you an idea what it will be like is the difference in Jesus' body before and after the resurrection. He had a physical body, but was able to walk right through a wall and appear to the disciples. The glorified body won't die anymore.

[ENOCH2010]

I have always been perplexed about the dead rising first statement because Jesus said he is God of the living and mentioned Abraham. And when he died on the cross did not the dead rise then? So I am left believing that those dead in Christ have already risen.

At the resurrection of Jesus many of the saints rose with him. Meaning,the dead, that had faith in Christ who had died prior to his resurrection.The dead in Christ since his resurrection are present with the Lord until his return, those he will bring with him to be reunited with their new bodies.

[kdb4747]

The following is our understanding of what this passage means, along with some additional thoughts on prophecy.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

(13) But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. The Apostle Paul is informing the church at Thessalonica about loved ones that had passed away (“fallen asleep”) before them, to give them hope so they would not grieve.

(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him<those> who sleep in Jesus. The Apostle Paul explained that GOD would bring <those> who sleep in Jesus with Him when He returns.

(15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. The church is reassured that when the Lord returns, those who are alive and remain will not ascend (be caught-up) to be with the Lord before those who are “fallen asleep”.

(16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Here is what happened/happens. By a shout with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of GOD, Christ will descend from Heaven (with <those> who slept in Jesus He brings with Him), and the “dead in Christ” rise first (are born again). The “dead in Christ” are believers who have not repented and been forgiven of all trespasses to be born again and pass from death unto life by being made alive together with the Spirit of Christ. There are several reasons why they might not have been forgiven and born again. These might include: not being forgiven because of not repenting of the worldly lusts of the flesh and practicing unrighteousness (as a prodigal), for not being justified by the grace of GOD for their faith because of trying to be self-righteous or by following Law-like doctrine, for trusting in standards, traditions, or sacraments of the church for salvation rather than Christ alone, for trusting in the institution of a particular church denomination for salvation, or for not loving the brethren, as we were given command. When a believer is truly born again, we do not have to merely believe we have been saved, we can know it.

(17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with <them> in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. After the “dead in Christ” repent to be made alive in Christ, THEN, we who are alive in Christ and remain will be caught up together with <them> in the clouds (GOD brings with Him) to meet the Lord in the air. And we shall always be with the Lord.

(18) Therefore comfort one another with these words. Rising from being dead in trespasses and sins by being born again in Christ, preceeds our ascension by being caught-up together in the clouds with <them GOD brings with Him> to meet the Lord in the air.

These verses show that even though we are physically alive, we can be separated from GOD by our sins, or spiritually dead in our sins.

"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead (Revelation 3:1).

My son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' And they began to be merry (Luke 15:24). The prodigal was a son of his father, but lost in the ways of the world and sin, he was as dead to his father; even as someone with Christ in them can be as dead by being out of fellowship with GOD because of sin in their life, or for not being forgiven by the grace of GOD for their faith in the name of Jesus Christ.

And many of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will see their dead bodies three days and a half, and they will not allow their dead bodies to be put in tombs (Revelation 11:9).

This prophecy is on the two witnesses (good and wild olive trees) born again Israelite and Gentile believers that were spiritually killed by legalistic church doctrine that came about 434 years (62 weeks) after the coming of Christ for the purpose of containing the overspreading of abominations (Daniel 9:27), until about 1260 years later, when those dead in their trespasses and sins (“dead in Christ”) began to rise again by the grace of GOD for their faith. This is similar to the people being under the authority of the Mosaic Law, that was added 430 after the covenant of faith between GOD and Abraham because of the transgression of the people (Galatians 3:17-19), until Jesus Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law and fulfilled the Law by becoming a final sacrifice to atone for our sins once for all.

We are… well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).

When we “put off our earthly house”, we are absent from the body and present with the Lord.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed; we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens (2 Corinthians 5:1).

……..and the dead in Christ shall rise first. We live in an earthen body while we dwell on earth. The earth is our body, but our body is not us. We dwell in GOD the Father, Who makes us in His own likeness by conforming us to the image of Jesus Christ to become a son of GOD and heir of the Kingdom of GOD. GOD is our Father and we are His offspring; He is the Vinedresser that brings forth the fruit of the Spirit; He is the Refiner that purges us of our impurities to make us holy; and He is the Potter who shapes us into His own image as Christ is formed in us.

Our earthen body does not rise from the grave. We have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Ask yourself, if it is our earthen body that is raised, then what about a decomposed body that has dispersed and become part of a field that food is grown from that becomes the body of whoever or whatever eats food from that field; or the dust of a decomposed body that is carried away by the wind; or the earth from a decomposed body that is washed down a river and into the ocean, to be carried away by the current to wherever. Our earthen body is continually being recycled and changing, when we bathe, as our hair and nails are cut, as our body is nourished, as our body degenerates with age. We are a living soul that dwells within an earthen body. The soul is as dead by being our of fellowship with GOD because of sin, until we are reconciled to GOD and born again by being made alive together with the Spirit of Christ (Who is one with GOD our Father) when we are forgiven of all trespases.

And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"(John 11:26). Believers that are born of GOD never die. We have Eternal Life by the Holy Spirit of GOD in Christ being the life within us.

I give them Eternal Life, and they shall never perish; (John 10:28a). As Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17, because the Holy Spirit of GOD the Father (Who is Eternal Life) is in the Son (Jesus Christ), we are born again and have Eternal Life by being joined together with the Spirit of Christ when we are forgiven of all trespasses by repenting and confessing our sins.

…….but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, (2 Timothy 1:10). Because Christ tasted death for every man and was raised from the dead, He is alive forevermore, so that we are effectually joined together with Him into His death and raised incorruptible (born again) by being joined together with His Spirit when we are forgiven by repenting and confessing our sins, and death is thereby abolished.

With love in Christ,.......

Edited July 18, 2012 by kdb4747