stevethewriter Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2012 Consider the following scriptures: 1 Peter Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers. 1 Corinthians Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church 1 Timothy A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. Now I know there are plenty of verses extolling the strengths of women as well, but in considering the societal norms of Biblical times it seems to make sense that Biblical teachings would support the notion that Husbands and other male figures (because at this time all authority figures would have been male) are to be considered stronger and therefore women, who are weaker, must submit to their authority. Reconciling this with modern practices is a bit difficult. The role of women has changed vastly since Scripture was written. Even my own wife has stated she does not feel obligated to be submissive to me. Rather, she wants us to be equal partners in making all major decisions. I share her feelings on this by the way. I do not and have never seen her as weaker than myself. Sexism is generally frowned upon in modern western society. The more accepted notion is that men and women should be on equal footing in practically all respects. Now of course it's obvious that culture has changed a great deal since Biblical times, but we are taught the Word is living, always changing, always growing and always relevant to what's going in the world. So how then, do the scriptures above pertaining to sexism fit into our modern views of gender roles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) My initial response is no. Sexism is not okay. The passages present some difficult teachings. However, I'm not sure these passages in context are sexist. I'm sure Scripture will interpret Scripture through the Holy Spirit. I will need to pray and study this further. I have similar questions about these passages. But I am looking forward to delving into God's Word and discussing this in this thread. In Christ, Jon Edited October 12, 2012 by GoldenEagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 .... Sexism is generally frowned upon in modern western society. The more accepted notion is that men and women should be on equal footing in practically all respects. Now of course it's obvious that culture has changed a great deal since Biblical times, but we are taught the Word is living, always changing, always growing and always relevant to what's going in the world. So how then, do the scriptures above pertaining to sexism fit into our modern views of gender roles.... The Modern View Of All Things Pure And Godly Is As Old As Mankind Itself But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Proverbs 8:36 But To The New Born Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must beborn again. John 3:7 She Is A Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Ephesians 5:25 Wonder The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldShep Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 934 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 137 Days Won: 6 Joined: 07/20/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/12/1950 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Consider the following scriptures: Sexism is generally frowned upon in modern western society. The more accepted notion is that men and women should be on equal footing in practically all respects. Now of course it's obvious that culture has changed a great deal since Biblical times, but we are taught the Word is living, always changing, always growing and always relevant to what's going in the world. So how then, do the scriptures above pertaining to sexism fit into our modern views of gender roles? Hmmmm, who is this "we" you are speaking of? The word is God: Rev_22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. I do not see "I am always changing" So how then, do the scriptures above pertaining to sexism fit into our modern views of gender roles? They mean for each partner to respect the other, work together as a team, being in a state of submission, does not mean less then. SEE: Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English Submission SUBMIS'SION, n. [L. submissio, from submitto.] 1. The act of submitting; the act of yielding to power or authority; surrender of the person and power to the control or government of another. Submission, dauphin! 'tis a mere French word; We English warriors wot not what it means. 2. Acknowledgment of inferiority or dependence; humble or suppliant behavior. In all submission and humility, York doth present himself unto your highness. 3. Acknowledgment of a fault; confession or error. Be not as extreme in submission, as in offense. 4. Obedience; compliance with the commands or laws of a superior. Submission of children to their parents is an indispensable duty. 5. Resignation; a yielding of one's will to the will or appointment of a superior without murmuring. Entire and cheerful submission to the will of God is a christian duty of prime excellence. I personally think, if more men would step up to the plate and really do what Jesus Christ taught us, then less women would have to. I hope you are not asking this question in an attempt to keep some Christian women from speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold Believer Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,931 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/22/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1955 Share Posted October 12, 2012 The woman is the weaker vessel in terms of physical strength and emotional dependance. This doesn't mean women are stupid. God has however set down an order and He has placed the man at the head of it for His own holy purposes. Women are given much latitude in Scripture, far moreso than in other religions and cultures, Islam being the one which springs to mind first. Women are given value and worth in Christianity. They may teach other women and young children, they are mentioned more often favorably in Scripture than in the books of other religions so far as I know. It was the faithfulness of a woman which allowed Messiah to be born into this world. No, Scripture is not sexist at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2012 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Eph 5:1,2 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Eph 5:21 There is no sexism as there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus. I think the question is one that can only be asked WITHOUT taking the totality of the passage into consideration (Eph 5) I don't think there is a conflict. Prior to the admonitions to husbands and wives, we have submission TO EACH OTHER without the marriage relationship. Each Christian TO each Christian So, what does THAT submission look like? It means to 'defer to' BUT that would be as Christ is the Head in all things. It does not mean you defer to error or abuse. From that, follows the breakdown of submission within the family with husbands being told, basically, that their obligation is to love their wives as Christ loved the church...that, is sacrificial love IN other words, submission appears to be an act of obedience to Christ on the part of each one and especially within marriage as putting the other first with the husband's part to be demonstrated first as Christ first demonstrated His It becomes problamatical when husbands decide they should play the part of God and when wives decide to play the part of apostate Israel BECAUSE their husband has become like Egypt's pharoah towards them Exceptions on both sides of course in which case the original admonition to submit was not paid any attention The order can only work as each submits to Christ, which also results in a very telling witness as to who actually does (submit to Christ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2012 This doesn't mean women are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2012 The love of God is not sexist because he created two different creatures both males and females. Both sexes were created for a specific purpose. If men and women stop submitting themselves to one another then the human race would become extinct completely cease to exist. God has no favortism between the men and women because they were created different for a particular purpose in life. There are alot of people with the idea that their opposite sex has it more easier than their own sex. But that is a lie it's just that individuals have not come to accept themselves as God has created and made them. God does have an order that prolongs the human race and it is called marriage and submission to one another is the way God has chosen for the human race to continue. In the homosexual community they rebell against the order God has set in place which is within the constitution of marriage. The homosexuals cannot have children lying with their same sex because God didn't order that to be so. Many homosexuals choose to be homosexuals for that very reason to not have children. Many people with great wealth chose the homosexual lifestyle so they want lose their wealth by putting it at risk in the order God has chosen within the sanctity of marriage. But they refuse their natural desire for the opposite sex and turn the order Of God into something that is unnatural being men with men and women with women. In so doing their wealth is protected and children want stand in their way simply they are believing a lie. God did not create the human race to carry on that way but created them male and female. It was Eve who was deceived by Satan in the garden by getting her to believe his lie and convinced her that she wouldn't die if she ate from the forbidden tree instead she would know everything about good and evil that only God knew. In the time before the fall both Adam and Eve only had the knowledge of good a state of innocence untainted by unrighteousness (sin, wickedness, evil, wrongdoing, unrighteousness)...Eve was weak in relation to being the first tricked by the serpent (devil) who deceived her with a lie and she fell for it and gave into the temptation for knowledge she didn't have like God was keeping something from her. There is no such teaching in the Word of God that gives credence to the ideaology that God is sexist. If that were true why would God have use for the opposite sex and I know God has created everything with a purpose. Did God create one sex just to belittle and make it less valuable than the opposite sex? No I don't think so for everything God makes has purpose and meaning. It is level ground with both of the sexes. For both sexes have been given gifts and talents that are unique making each valuable to God for his purpose. God absolutely has a set order so the human race can continue on the face of the earth. The first lie that came into the world came by the father of lies Satan. Eve in her weakness believed that lie which would give her greater knowledge that only God had. She ate the forbidden fruit and took some of it to Adam to eat and he did. From their God cursed the serpent, the woman, the man, and the ground. There is not any sexism to be found becauseGod cursed both the man and the woman but it was in different ways for their disobedience. This brought death to all of mankind that was to be born. Anyone living under a curse has hardships and struggles in this life and it is without superiority for man's days are few and full of trouble. Men and women are two seperate creatures God created that are totally different from each other. One sex cannot be superior or better than the other for God equally gave the males and females a purpose of their own and that purpose can only be performed and fulfilled by the one it was given too. I'm not talking here about intellect or the ability to do something better than the other making one sex superior over the other for that is not what it is about not at all. If men and women fail to submit to one another the human race would over time cease to exist for sure. just a little rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 12, 2012 Sex for sex sake isn't acceptatable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethewriter Posted October 12, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 I personally think, if more men would step up to the plate and really do what Jesus Christ taught us, then less women would have to. I hope you are not asking this question in an attempt to keep some Christian women from speaking. No, absolutely not. The church needs strong women as much as it needs strong men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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