Spinning Machine Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/30/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2013 Cobalt, I will be brief as I am currently putting some verses together for my freind Shiloh, you think you are being smart with your question, but I have an answer and its scriptual Matthew 22:30 is very clear in heaven we will be spiritual creatures like angels, Paul in Galations 3:23-29 explains that those who believe in Christ are no longer subject to the penalty of the law, because we are now spiritual creatures, even though we are yet carnal in the flesh and mind, we are now spiritual Jews as our hearts are now circumsized. You can play the race card all you want by useing the anti-semitic phrase, but it will not stick, as I have not said one word against the people who live in the state of Isreal, , as the scriptures are very clear that "ALL IS OF GOD" eg: Proverbs 16:1-4 ps: I am curious as my post was addressed to Shiloh, In 43 years of being a Christian have you not read this verse 1 Peter 4:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinning Machine Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/30/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2013 Shiloh this is especialy for you and your imaginary freind, I have only given three verses plus three extra translations so there is no room for you and your freind to worm your way around the truth ps: Its my fault, but you replied to a post that I ment for Nebula, it is clear to me you know the scriptures, be it you don't believe them. And if you [Paul is writing to GENTILE Galatians] be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s SEED, and HEIRS according to the PROMISE" (Gal. 3:29). "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature [or creation]. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the ISRAEL OF GOD" (Gal. 6:15-16). Yes, it is the "new creature in Christ Jesus" which is now "the ISRAEL OF GOD," not the Christ forsaking Jews of modern day Palestine. "…they who ARE the Israel of God" (The Twentieth Century N. T.). "…on the TRUE Israel of God" (Williams Translation). "…to the TRUE Israel of God" (Phillips Translation That said if the "Jews" living in Isreal where to fall to their knees and accept our Lord Jesus Christ I would cry great big tears of joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2013 Shiloh what are you babbling on about, 1st century rhetoric, Paul's imaginary opponent etc etc: pray tell have you not read or heard about Gods Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost , Oh, I am still waiting for the scriptures that say I am not the new Jew. ps: have a google at the Supreme Courts of Isreal and tell yourself it is not a Masonic temple, and I dont do anti-semitic anything how could I being a Spiritual Jew. I love all my fellow man, even the ones who hate Jesus, because He was brutally sacrificed for all men. so I do not hate what my Lord died for. I tell you what I will go find some more scriptures to prove that I am also the new Isrealite and so you can do your rhetoric imaginary freind thingy bob, he he I find it ironic that you could make the bolded statement with a straight face while proliferating antisemitic Masonic junk that you have gleaned off of flaky websites which are run by. . . Wait for it. . . People who are antisemitic. I have found that when people run around telling everyone how much of a "spiritual Jew" they are, there is an underlying motive. While fully-well realizing that through my acceptance of Christ I am also an heir to promise of salvation along with the Jews, it occurs to me that in 43 years of being a Christian, I have never once felt the need to go around proclaiming to people that I am a "spiritual Jew." I might be, positionally, but my focus is always on Christ, not what spiritual ethnic make-up I am. I asked this question of Gandalf, but he doesn't like answering questions, so I will ask it of you: Galatians three also says we are no longer male or female, so according to your theory, since our racial makeup disappears when we get saved, our sexual identity should evaporate as well. Am I no longer a male? Just wanted to thank you for your post. Yes, to say Israel is Masonic is crazy and anti-semitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2013 Yes, it is the "new creature in Christ Jesus" which is now "the ISRAEL OF GOD," not the Christ forsaking Jews of modern day Palestine. I will leave the rest for Shiloh to answer, but I cannot refrain from commenting on this sentence of yours as it exemplifies something that I have fought against for many years...a combination of ignorance and latent Christian anti-Semitism. In Galatians, despite the words of some commentators, the expression 'ISRAEL OF G-D' is not enough evidence on its own to suppose it is referring to ALL BELIEVERS, ,because prior to that Paul states...'as many as walk....AND...' the 'and' shows he is speaking to two groups of people within that community...Gentiles AND Jews (the latter being the Israel of G-d, the REMNANT) The most repugnant part of your wording is the term 'Christ forsaking Jews'...and you think they are going to repent and accept your anti-Semitic Gospel so you can cry big tears of joy...shame on you. Lastly the Jewish people do not live in modern day Palestine, they live in ISRAEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Shiloh this is especialy for you and your imaginary freind, I have only given three verses plus three extra translations so there is no room for you and your freind to worm your way around the truth ps: Its my fault, but you replied to a post that I ment for Nebula, it is clear to me you know the scriptures, be it you don't believe them. And if you [Paul is writing to GENTILE Galatians] be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s SEED, and HEIRS according to the PROMISE" (Gal. 3:29). "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature [or creation]. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the ISRAEL OF GOD" (Gal. 6:15-16). Yes, it is the "new creature in Christ Jesus" which is now "the ISRAEL OF GOD," not the Christ forsaking Jews of modern day Palestine. "…they who ARE the Israel of God" (The Twentieth Century N. T.). "…on the TRUE Israel of God" (Williams Translation). "…to the TRUE Israel of God" (Phillips Translation That said if the "Jews" living in Isreal where to fall to their knees and accept our Lord Jesus Christ I would cry great big tears of joy. Gal. 3:29 is not about who is or is not Jewish. In fact, being a descendent of Abraham doesn't make on Jewish, physically or spiriutally. Abraham was justified by faith as a GENTILE. Abraham, if you want to get down to it was not a Jew. Abraham was justifed by faith as a Gentile 25 years before he was circumcised. So trying to connect Jewishness to Abraham in that regard is simply a futile act. Gal. 3:29 was written to combat a Judaizing heresy that one had to convert to the Jewish religion (hence circumcision) in addition to believing in Jesus as Savior. It was an attempt by these Judaizers to add to the Word of God by trying make the Galatian believers into Jews. Paul's point is that conversion to the Jewish religion and getting circumcised would not provide anything that faith in Jesus had not already provided. As for Gal. 6:16... "Israel of God" only refers to Jewish believers. The question that must be answered is what does Paul mean in this passage by the term "Israel of God." The assumption of many commentators is that "Israel of God" is used in juxtaposition to the corporate nation of Israel, the Jewish people. So what we must determine is whether or not the context in which it appears allows for that usage to be applied to Paul's words. Part of the problem is how Replacement Theologians handle the word “and” in verse 16, “and upon the Israel of God. It is the Greek word “kai” and can be used in two ways. It is rendered often in English as the conjunction “and” but it can also be rendered in a cumulative form as well, such as the word “even.” Replacement theologians often view this verse in a more cumulative sense, meaning that they use the words, “and the Israel of God” to define the previously mentioned, “all who follow this rule.” That is why they understand the Greek word “kai” as cumulative and do not see it in the form of a conjunction. So to them, the verse could or should read, “And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, even upon the Israel of God.” So the question is, since we have two valid interpretative methods for this verse, which one is correct? The answer is that context always determines word usage. It does not so much determine word meaning but when you have languages like ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek where the pool of words is smaller than English and words play double, triple and quadruple duty, context is always the “tie breaker,” so to speak. Context demonstrates which of the competing word meanings the author intended. Absent from the context is any attempt to redefine the Church as Israel. That is not the object Paul has in view. Any discussion of Gal. 6:16 must be kept within the parameters of context established by Paul. The term “Israel of God” is used by replacement theologians to denote an “Israel” other than biblical Israel. Thus, the “Israel of God,” which follows “the rule” in verse 15 is defined by replacement theologians as the Church. Yet, the context does not allow for that reading. What it does allow for is the understanding that Paul is talking about Jewish believers in the Messiah. Once again, Dr. Vlach makes an excellent point: "Galatians 6:16 – Paul is referring to Christian Jews in his reference to the “Israel of God.” Paul scolded the Judaizers who said circumcision was necessary for salvation, but he acknowledges those Jews in Galatia who had not followed the Judaizers in their error. These Christian Jews are the true “Israel of God.”1 Paul sees Gentile believers as the seed of Abraham by faith (Gal. 3: 7-29). Paul does not see in existence, a “new Israel” comprised of Gentiles that replace the Jewish people. In fact, to say that “Israel of God” refers to the Church as opposed to biblical Israel, would actually defeat Paul’s previous remarks in Gal. 3:7-29 since He goes to great pains to show how the Gentile believers are included in God’s plan along with the natural seed of Abraham. 1 Vlach, Michael, Ph.D. Twelve Reasons why Supersessionism/Replacement Theology Is Not a Biblical Doctrine Retrieved with permission from http://www.theologicalstudies.citymax.com/page/page/4425336.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.75 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted June 6, 2013 Shiloh this is especialy for you and your imaginary freind, I have only given three verses plus three extra translations so there is no room for you and your freind to worm your way around the truth ps: Its my fault, but you replied to a post that I ment for Nebula, it is clear to me you know the scriptures, be it you don't believe them. And if you [Paul is writing to GENTILE Galatians] be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s SEED, and HEIRS according to the PROMISE" (Gal. 3:29). "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature [or creation]. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the ISRAEL OF GOD" (Gal. 6:15-16). Yes, it is the "new creature in Christ Jesus" which is now "the ISRAEL OF GOD," not the Christ forsaking Jews of modern day Palestine. "…they who ARE the Israel of God" (The Twentieth Century N. T.). "…on the TRUE Israel of God" (Williams Translation). "…to the TRUE Israel of God" (Phillips Translation That said if the "Jews" living in Isreal where to fall to their knees and accept our Lord Jesus Christ I would cry great big tears of joy. Some thoughts on Galatians.... 1. Paul and Barnabas went to Asia Minor on their 1st missionary journey, AD 48-49. This journey included the south Galatian cities of Iconium, Lystra, & Derbe. 2. Later, some Jewish Christians said a person must become a Jew prior to becoming a Christian. a. These were Judaizers teaching legalism. b. Paul answered this heresy by writing Galatians, saying a Christian is saved by faith and not the law (2:16-20; 3:6, 24- 25; 5:6). Paul also said a Christian is free from the law (2:4; 5:1, 13). c. The same situation in Syrian Antioch was addressed at the Jerusalem Council in AD 50 (Acts 15). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.74 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.84 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Matthew 22:30 is very clear in heaven we will be spiritual creatures like angels, Paul in Galations 3:23-29 explains that those who believe in Christ are no longer subject to the penalty of the law, because we are now spiritual creatures, What does subjection to the Law or not have to do with making one Jewish or not? even though we are yet carnal in the flesh and mind, we are now spiritual Jews as our hearts are now circumsized. Ishmael was circumcised. Did that make him a Jew? And if you [Paul is writing to GENTILE Galatians] be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s SEED, and HEIRS according to the PROMISE" (Gal. 3:29). Ishmael and Esau are Abraham's seed. Were they Jews? No, Jews are those of the seed of Jacob (Abraham, Isaac, AND Jacob). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 6, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.92 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted June 6, 2013 I fear that those who believe that Israel is Masonic, anti-Semitic or any such nonsense are in receipt of false scripture. The evidence that the modern nation of Israel is the promised land of the Jews is practically unshakeable. The mere fact that despite all efforts to hamper her, slander her and destroy her, she is still here, is miraculous in itself, and I believe that is proof that God is protecting her. I also believe that God who is always honest and fair would not associate himself with the goals of those who serve false gods. Hitler's Nazi regime was obsessive about murdering Jews and the despicable, Satanic ideology of Islam detests Jews and is doing everything it can to destroy Israel. If two of the biggest evils in history are against Jews and against Israel, then that is enough to convince me that both Jews and Israel have a special place in God's plan. If anyone who calls himself a Christian seriously believes that God has finished with the Jews, then I suggest that he checks his scripture - starting with the following: Amos 9:11-15 Zechariah 8:23 Ezekiel 38 and 39 The above chapters and verses do not make any sense if one believes in replacement theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted June 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,173 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 1,097 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2013 I would just like to add a point. Romans 11:23,23 - And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree. Rom 15:1 - I am the true vine. Here we have Israel being pulled out of the olive tree, because of unbelief, and us as Gentiles being grafted into the same olive tree, because of belief, in which they were pulled out from. But what happens when Israel the Natural branches become grafted back into the olive tree. So we have both Israel and Gentiles grafted into the same tree (vine), which is truely Jesus Christ. TheTwo are seperate, but only together when in the same tree. We (Gentiles) are not Israel, and Israel is not Gentile. We are just tied into the same tree. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.11 Reputation: 9,767 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2013 This has turned into a back and forth bickering battle and it needs to take a break for a short time. Closed for 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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