older widows 1 Timothy 5, 9-10

[Willa]

These verses speak of older widows in the churches who are:

True widows, left alone;

Trust in God;

Women of prayer, is a "prayer warrior" cuntinuing in prayers and supplications day and night;

Over 60 years old;

The wife of one man;

Reported for good works:

raised children,

lodged strangers,

washed the saints feet,

Relieved the afflicted,

Diligently followed every good work.

Verse 9 also starts by saying "don't let a widow under 60 years old be taken into THE NUMBER..

The pastor teaching the series thought that this meant that these widows were being supported by the churches. I would like your comments and ideas.

I also thought of Paul recommending that Phoebe be received by the church and commented on what a help she had been to him personally as well as to others. The word diakonos (deacon) is used of her here. Rom. 16:1-2 I wonder if she is one of the widows over 60 who are in the "number" mentioned in 1 Tim. 5:9. Perhaps there is no connection at all since deacons were said to be unpaid in Vine's Expository Dictionary and Acts 6:1 tells of the widows being supported by the church through daily distribution (of food?).

I would appreciate andy ideas and imput.

Deciner--I am not a widow and would not qualify for such support. I have never lodged a stranger, either.

[missmuffet]

Do you think the word "widow" can also describe a man who has left his wife?The Bible also talks about orphans.What about a man who has left his wife and children.Maybe they could be considered as widows and orphans.

[OldShep]

The pastor teaching the series thought that this meant that these widows were being supported by the churches. I would like your comments and ideas.

I agree with the pastor teaching on

1 Timothy 5:3-16

Widows into the numbers as I understand it was the employment and maintenance from the church: of "true windows" . In days long gone there was an office in the church in which widows were employed, and given assignments from the deacons, to tend the sick and the aged. You can read about the early days in Christian church (Act_6:1).

1Ti 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. { wonder if my son has read this}.

Paul recommending of Phoebe, has nothing to do with being placed in the numbers, but to be accepted as sister in Chirst, she was infact a a servant of the church in Cenchrea, a seaport a few miles east of Corinth see( Act_18:18 ) and Paul was asking the Roman Christains to give her any help she may need. Kind of like a letter of introduction today commending the person for favorable regards and attentions. see ( 2Co_3:1; Act_18:27) Phebe seems to have been a person of some account; and yet it was no problem for her to be a servant to the church.

That is my take on it.

Hope it helps you, Dennis

[Willa]

Do you think the word "widow" can also describe a man who has left his wife?The Bible also talks about orphans.What about a man who has left his wife and children.Maybe they could be considered as widows and orphans.

Bopeep, I think that this verse refers only to elderly women and abandoned children. It sounds like everyone had to pull their own weight, also.. Men who have deserted their wives and children should seek employment of some nature to proved for themselves as well as their families.

Men who are over 60 and are physically or mentally

unable to work and provide for themselves should be supported by those in his close family who can.

My dad's father died in a diptheria epidemic that killed a son and his wife's sister as well. His uncles and an aunt providid housing on the ranch. It was shelter: a sod house. They worked hard for their keep. All Jesus promises to provide are the basic of food and clothing. Sisters made the kids clothes by hand, often out of flour sacks. They ate from their gardens, the milk cow and the yearling that they raised and butchered. He also tells of eating rattlesnake and living in a cave with his grandpa while trying to file on a homestead. His mother's father was still able boded and worked for his dads brothers and sisters also. That is how the church expected society to operate.

That is how our church provides for those who are able to work, also. They are invited to glean from their fields or fruit trees. Vegetables and fruit are also placed in the church kitchen for people in need to help themselves who are disabled. Canned goods are also provided by those who are able to give. No money is given unles they pay a utility directly when bill is presented that is threatening to turn off water and electricity.

V 16 refers to real elderly widows having no extended family that will support them, And lays out the boundaries that their families should support each other. Having no families to help them,, abandoned Elderly widows and orphans should have bare necessities such as food provided by the local church. No one was to be a burden to the church but people were to help out as they were able. Janitor work, child care, prayer, caring for the sick and imprisoned.

Before public assistance this is how families operated. Now we have a society that expects to be given everything.

A woman with children who is abandoned is not an elderly great grandmother with out any living family.

In fact, younger women with children are told to remarry in 1 tim 5:11-15 (widows are unlikely to include those who are abandoned by an unbelieving husband in this portion because both are likely to have believers in their familie who are able to help them out. Even if it is to babysit while mom works or to turn the garage into temporary shelter for them.

Also: Thank you Dennis for your reply. I should have checked some expository commentaries, but you have answerred my question to my satisfaction. I much appreciate your insight.

[back2thebible]

These verses speak of older widows in the churches who are:

True widows, left alone;

Trust in God;

Women of prayer, is a "prayer warrior" cuntinuing in prayers and supplications day and night;

Over 60 years old;

The wife of one man;

Reported for good works:

raised children,

lodged strangers,

washed the saints feet,

Relieved the afflicted,

Diligently followed every good work.

Verse 9 also starts by saying "don't let a widow under 60 years old be taken into THE NUMBER..

The pastor teaching the series thought that this meant that these widows were being supported by the churches. I would like your comments and ideas.

I also thought of Paul recommending that Phoebe be received by the church and commented on what a help she had been to him personally as well as to others. The word diakonos (deacon) is used of her here. Rom. 16:1-2 I wonder if she is one of the widows over 60 who are in the "number" mentioned in 1 Tim. 5:9. Perhaps there is no connection at all since deacons were said to be unpaid in Vine's Expository Dictionary and Acts 6:1 tells of the widows being supported by the church through daily distribution (of food?).

I would appreciate andy ideas and imput.

Deciner--I am not a widow and would not qualify for such support. I have never lodged a stranger, either.

I think it points to the church taking care of its elderly, which in todays world is maybe a visit from a pastor, or a few meals when sick, other than that old folks are pretty much on their own...........very sad the church today

[OldShep]

Also: Thank you Dennis for your reply. I should have checked some expository commentaries, but you have answerred my question to my satisfaction. I much appreciate your insight.

Your welcome. I'm retired now, and for most part always worked, at times working as a field hand and also a Janitor for my local church during a slow down in the electrical construction trades. As a field hand I stayed in a bunk house area of a 1800 farm house, unheated, owned by Christians friends from Church. Paying rent and helping run the 80 acre farm, even after I found work in my field, Electrical, Industrial Engineering. The Church I go to help those that really need help, some what like yours does.

My Grandfather was a man of means and worked as a farmer, an Captain and engineer of a tug boat, and held better then 500 areas of land in Northern Maine. As a child I think I was about 5, He told me a story about honest men and lazy men who would not care for even members of their own family. During this time, the phase "if a man does not work a man should not eat" came into my teaching. Logging was often done and the wood soled to support the family back in the early 1900's and the 1800's as well from the land once owed by my family. Self supporting is not a easy task and at times there are those that need help do to illness or injury, and that was an accepted fact in my family and we were often turned to, to provide help, through the Church.

My Grandfather and Great-grandfather kept diaries for most part these diaries were the daily log of events that took place in and around the household and the town they lived in. Granddad was also an elected Selectman of the town for many years. Hard to read, these dated back to mid 1700. One of the things I noticed while reading these daily logs, was that my Grandmother and Great Grandmother worked just as hard to support that family as the men did.

What do you think of these words form the Bible?

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.

(2Th 3:6-12)

Who provides support to the mother of a women who deserted her children and divorced her husband?

Dennis