Who told you that you were naked???

[xero]

Another portion of scripture for us all to consider in this specific discussion:

Revelation 3:

¹⁴ And to the angel (messenger) of the assembly (church) in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the trusty and faithful and true Witness, the Origin and Beginning and Author of God’s creation:

¹⁵ I know your [record of] works and what you are doing; you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot!

¹⁶ So, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth!

¹⁷ For you say, I am rich; I have prospered and grown wealthy, and I am in need of nothing; and you do not realize and understand that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

¹⁸ Therefore I counsel you to purchase from Me gold refined and tested by fire, that you may be [truly] wealthy, and white clothes to clothe you and to keep the shame of your nudity from being seen, and salve to put on your eyes, that you may see.

¹⁹ Those whom I [dearly and tenderly] love, I tell their faults and convict and convince and reprove and chasten [i discipline and instruct them]. So be enthusiastic and in earnest and burning with zeal and repent [changing your mind and attitude].

Before knowing good and evil there was no shame of being naked and thats the account from Genesis. We are given white robes for our shame because we know good and evil.

Before the fall we were naked and had no shame but after it all were clothed in white robes to cover our nudity and the shame thereof which was perceived upon falling.

Receiving a white robe is a future event and it doesnt reflect on the condition of man prior to sin being that its in relation to man having sinned and been redeemed.

Before sin: man is nude and theres no shame, after sin: nudity is shameful, after redemption: shame is covered in a white robe.

Theres a chronology and I cant make the Bible say Adam has a white robe because there is a white robe mentioned in Revelation to covering the shame of nudity when were redeemed.

I cant tell other people Adam had a spiritual covering which was taken off and thats why he was ashamed because its misleading.

The shame felt for nudity wasnt because of the nudity itself its because of sin and now that we have sinned we cant go back to being nude and shameless because we are sinners.

The white robe is to cover the shame felt from sin (shame will apparently still be there) so we still know good and evil therefore we are not reverting back the original state of man in the garden: without the knowledge of good and evil, but we are redeemed from sin.

[*Zion*]

Very good, Xero. Now tell me, are these robes physical or spiritual?

[xero]

Very good, Xero. Now tell me, are these robes physical or spiritual?

Its a spiritual robe for our resurrected spiritual body.

We arent going to have a natural body anymore its going to be a spiritual body.

Ill show what I mean with scripture:

1 Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

Put together with:

2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

The tabernacle in which we do groan is the earthly house, the physical body, the natural man, the mortal flesh, in which mortality will be swallowed up of life and the natural body will become a spiritual body like a seed raised up.

Spiritual robe for a spiritual body.

[xero]

Im using an ipod and it has some issues when I reply to a topic that Im already following; it "unfollows" the topic, and I have to make another post in order to even have the option to checkmark: "Follow this topic?".

Sorry to waste the space.

[back2thebible]

Very good, Xero. Now tell me, are these robes physical or spiritual?

Its a spiritual robe for our resurrected spiritual body.

We arent going to have a natural body anymore its going to be a spiritual body.

Ill show what I mean with scripture:

1 Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

Put together with:

2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."

The tabernacle in which we do groan is the earthly house, the physical body, the natural man, the mortal flesh, in which mortality will be swallowed up of life and the natural body will become a spiritual body like a seed raised up.

Spiritual robe for a spiritual body.

the white robe stands for Christ righteousness, we see the white robes given to the martyrs even before they're resurrected

[*Zion*]

See Xero, in the same way I can see that their is a spiritual covering, as well as a physical covering. Jesus had to cover us with His righteousness because our own righteousness isn't enough. Adam and Eve did not have this righteousness, therefore they hid. But they did not have to hide before, did they? This is not misleading just because the issue is spiritual and not physical. Actually, we are supposed to live our lives out in the spiritual because we worship God is Spirit and in truth - definitely not in flesh. We eat spiritual Rhema - His Word, and we drink spiritual living waters - which His Holy Spirit provides. It's not spiritual vs physical, in fact the spiritual manifests in the physical. Only the flesh gets in the way because the flesh is full of pride and arrogance - which actually is the opposite of faith - without which we cannot please God.

Blessings.

[xero]

See Xero, in the same way I can see that their is a spiritual covering, as well as a physical covering. Jesus had to cover us with His righteousness because our own righteousness isn't enough. Adam and Eve did not have this righteousness, therefore they hid. But they did not have to hide before, did they? This is not misleading just because the issue is spiritual and not physical. Actually, we are supposed to live our lives out in the spiritual because we worship God is Spirit and in truth - definitely not in flesh. We eat spiritual Rhema - His Word, and we drink spiritual living waters - which His Holy Spirit provides. It's not spiritual vs physical, in fact the spiritual manifests in the physical. Only the flesh gets in the way because the flesh is full of pride and arrogance - which actually is the opposite of faith - without which we cannot please God.

Blessings.

Adam was physically naked and didnt have a spiritual white robe on.

Im not making an arguement of physical versus spiritual Im clarifying that Adam was naked and didnt have a spiritual robe on.

Nudity is the question not physical versus spiritual.

You introduced the white robe as evidence of Adam having a spiritual covering in the garden so I had to address that.

Ive showed with scripture that Adam is nude in the garden and theres no spiritual robe on them.

You asserted the white robe to be the immortality thats clothed upon us as mentioned by Paul so Ive illustrated Adam was neither mortal nor immortal prefall.

There is no evidence for physical or spiritual clothing upon Adam in the garden.

You asserted theres a spiritual covering on Adam by implication of the verses in Revelation and 2 Corinthians which was an understandable misunderstanding.

I know theres spiritual things which are unseen but Im wearing clothes over my flesh and if I werent Id be naked even though in my nudity Id still be "covered" in the breath of life yet Id be nude and that breath isnt really covering anything because its invisible.

This is reminding me of "The emporers new clothes.".

[Guest]

.... There is no evidence for physical or spiritual clothing upon Adam in the garden....

Sin Is The Question And The Evidence

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

That His Glory Is Restored

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Revelation 3:17-19

Is Seen In His

And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. Exodus 34:29

Reflection

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 3:18

See?

[xero]

1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

Scripture tells us the spiritual is after the natural and not before.

[*Zion*]

Then how come the Son of God was made manifest in the physical, and yet before Abraham was, He is? And what about heaven? Is it a physical place or a spiritual place? If it's spiritual, how come it didn't exist in the physical first, but that we are told in Matthew 6 to pray to God for His Kingdom - of heaven - to come to earth? And what about Angels? And demons? And satan?