The 144,000 and their duties/Function

[Montana Marv]

The 144,000 mentioned in Rev 7:1-8 and Rev 14:1-5.

Where did the belief that these 144,000 evangelize the world during the 70th week. It is not in Scripture.

Scripture only mentions two functions; One is to follow the Lamb wherever He goes, then Two is to sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000.

They were sealed not for what they will do during the 70th week, but what they will do during the 1,000 year reign of Christ, and following.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest]

Although this comes from my essay on the sequence of end time events, it bears repeating here in response to your inquiry.

GOD is not going to abandon the planet to Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet but will raise up those who bear witness to His power and greatness, of which the most prominent will be the 144,000. Several important statements are made about this group. First, they are Jewish since the text states that this group comes "from every tribe of the sons of Israel" (7:4) and then goes on to detail that 12,000 come from each of Israel's twelve tribes. Second, they are "bond-servants of our GOD" (7:30) This statement specifically declares that the 144,000, along with the angels who are speaking, are servants of GOD. We are not told when they are saved, but it is most likely in the early days of the tribulation because the event being described in Revelation 7 probably occurs during that time. The fact that they are called servants of GOD also reveals that they will minister for the Lord in some way; most likely they will be the primary evangelists for GOD during the greater part of the tribulation. When teaching about the days of the tribulation, Jesus said that "the Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations and then the end shall come." (Matthew 24:14) He is talking of the Second Coming of course.

Immediately after the vision of the setting apart of the 144,000 in Revelation 7:1-8, John sees the results of their ministry - a great multitude of saved people will come from every nation on the earth (vv 9-17), which would seem to line up well with the statement of Jesus in Matthew 24. It seems that these 144,000 will be important instruments in the hands of GOD as He fulfills His purpose of bringing salvation to mankind during the tribulation period.

Third, they are sealed. The concept of "sealing" has several meanings in Scripture, but the primary on is that of security. The 144,000 are kept secure and protected from the judgment of GOD that will fall on the world, and from the wrath of Satan. In light of their ministry of spreading the Gospel and the successful persecution of believers by the forces of Satan in the tribulation this protection would be essential.

We can thus conclude that the 144,000 are Jewish evangelists who will be kept secure by GOD as they proclaim the Gospel during the tribulation period, but not the only ones.

[Montana Marv]

We know that the 144,000 are Jewish, we know they are sealed. We do not know if they evanglize (pure spculation) The earth and the seas are harmed by the first 4 trumpets. Their being sealed occured just before this. Rev 7:3. So all of the Seals judgements have past. I would put this sealing event well into the last 3 1/2 years. Well after the martyres of the 5th Seal. They would be part of the nation of Israel who fled into the wilderness to be protected by God. Their sealing took place there.

Again Scripture only gives two functions; Following the Lamb, and singing a new song before the throne.... Both of these occur during the 1,000 years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[wingnut-]

The 144,000 mentioned in Rev 7:1-8 and Rev 14:1-5.

Where did the belief that these 144,000 evangelize the world during the 70th week. It is not in Scripture.

Scripture only mentions two functions; One is to follow the Lamb wherever He goes, then Two is to sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000.

They were sealed not for what they will do during the 70th week, but what they will do during the 1,000 year reign of Christ, and following.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The church I was raised in taught it that way, in conjunction with the pre-trib position that the church would be removed. I'm not implying that this is taught by all churches that hold a pre-trib position, but I do believe for many that is where the teaching comes from. I've come to realize this is not the case and agree with your conclusion, the 144,000 serve a different purpose.

[rollinTHUNDER]

The 144,000 mentioned in Rev 7:1-8 and Rev 14:1-5.

Where did the belief that these 144,000 evangelize the world during the 70th week. It is not in Scripture.

I remember reading it from a pre-trib author when I was a new believer. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was Hal Lindsey in the Late Great Planet Earth. This belief became popular, since pre-tribbers believed the church is raptured out before the so-called 7 yr. tribulation, some claimed the 144,000 would then evangelize the world. These post-rapture believers would then become either the martyrs who would refuse the mark of the beast or they could try to survive until the second coming and be ruled over by the saints that return with Christ. I still have that book, but it's been many years since I read it (1990), but I believe that was what Hal believed in a nutshell.

But regardless of whether I pegged Hal as the correct author or not, I agree with you that this is not taught in scripture. It's just another false assumption.

[Montana Marv]

The 144,000 mentioned in Rev 7:1-8 and Rev 14:1-5.

Where did the belief that these 144,000 evangelize the world during the 70th week. It is not in Scripture.

I remember reading it from a pre-trib author when I was a new believer. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was Hal Lindsey in the Late Great Planet Earth. This belief became popular, since pre-tribbers believed the church is raptured out before the so-called 7 yr. tribulation, some claimed the 144,000 would then evangelize the world. These post-rapture believers would then become either the martyrs who would refuse the mark of the beast or they could try to survive until the second coming and be ruled over by the saints that return with Christ. I still have that book, but it's been many years since I read it (1990), but I believe that was what Hal believed in a nutshell.

But regardless of whether I pegged Hal as the correct author or not, I agree with you that this is not taught in scripture. It's just another false assumption.

Yes, Hal was the one who propigated that view within his books; it may have started before that, I do not know. Was it to enhance his books? Maybe. Kind of like having a special character or circumstance repeat itself in a book to hold your attentiion. But then it became as fact and not fiction. Then it took off

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ENOCH2010]

The 144,000 mentioned in Rev 7:1-8 and Rev 14:1-5.

Where did the belief that these 144,000 evangelize the world during the 70th week. It is not in Scripture.

I remember reading it from a pre-trib author when I was a new believer. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was Hal Lindsey in the Late Great Planet Earth. This belief became popular, since pre-tribbers believed the church is raptured out before the so-called 7 yr. tribulation, some claimed the 144,000 would then evangelize the world. These post-rapture believers would then become either the martyrs who would refuse the mark of the beast or they could try to survive until the second coming and be ruled over by the saints that return with Christ. I still have that book, but it's been many years since I read it (1990), but I believe that was what Hal believed in a nutshell.

But regardless of whether I pegged Hal as the correct author or not, I agree with you that this is not taught in scripture. It's just another false assumption.

Yes, Hal was the one who propigated that view within his books; it may have started before that, I do not know. Was it to enhance his books? Maybe. Kind of like having a special character or circumstance repeat itself in a book to hold your attentiion. But then it became as fact and not fiction. Then it took off

In Christ

Montana Marv

About like the pre-trib doctrine ?

[Guest]

I think the idea is, the since most pre-tribbers seem to assume that the restrainer is the Holy Spirit, and that He indwells beleivers, and that He goes missing when believers are raptured. Since they realize that there are beleivers in the tribulation, the so called 'tribulation saints', they assume that someone must be witnessing to them, so they invented the 144,000 witnesses, as a speculative answer to that minor problem. Just one of the many assumptions / inferences that have evolved in escapism eschatology.

[Guest]

Jesus said that "the Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations and then the end shall come."

Immediately after the vision of the setting apart of the 144,000 in Revelation 7:1-8, John sees the results of their ministry - a great multitude of saved people will come from every nation on the earth (vv 9-17), which would seem to line up well with the statement of Jesus in Matthew 24. It seems that these 144,000 will be important instruments in the hands of GOD as He fulfills His purpose of bringing salvation to mankind during the tribulation period.

In light of their ministry of spreading the Gospel and the successful persecution of believers by the forces of Satan in the tribulation this protection would be essential.

We can thus conclude that the 144,000 are Jewish evangelists who will be kept secure by GOD as they proclaim the Gospel during the tribulation period, but not the only ones.

Hmmm, really? I don't get how we can "conclude" any such thing. Pardon my ignorance, but do we know that the 144,000 even get out of Israel to evangelize people from all nations worldwide?

I would imagine it possible, that there are books, tracts, websites, etc, left all over the place where people can hear the gospel, not to mention the fact that it is just as likely that the Christians who are alive at the time the 7 years begins, could be evangelizing, in as much as the bible never mentions any pre-trib removal of anyone. Why is it so hard, to just take scripture at face value, instead of concocting additions to it? Just asking.

[Montana Marv]

I would call the tribulation saints very devout. Maybe some Mormons will really become "Latter Day Saints" A misguided cult making a turn around. Could be possible.

In Christ

Montana Marv