eternal security

[preciouspearl]

i know people who say someone can lose their salvation, but i hear that salvation is a gift, not earned by works.

what do you believe?

[gnomonist]

Of course salvation is a gift, contingent on continual faith and repentance resulting in obedience. As a matter of fact, that is the definition of faith in the NT. It's a verb (i.e. action) and not a noun, e.g. "Faith of our Fathers". Oftentimes faith is confused with merely belief, i.e. mental agreement to something. This is why James says the devils believe, and tremble. Thus, James argued for works, which is equivalent to Paul's "Fruit of the Spirit" which will show itself as some sort of action manifestation and obedience, not just an agreement to something. As a matter of fact, the devils don't have faith because if they had faith, they'd hang their very being on the promises of God. Instead, they know (believe) he's who he is and what he's going to do but nevertheless have no faith (obedience).

I think the problem I have with OSAS doctrines is that I find people who advocate that are big on an incantation at some altar call, and "steps" to salvation and nothing in the person really changes. They said their "sinner's prayer" like a good boy, and got their free fire insurance from Jesus, and then they go on in life doing the same thing as any other unregenerate person does. Instead, if it really "took", then that person will start thinking differently, start acting differently, especially with love to his fellow man, and have a thirst for the Word and tell others about Christ and his coming Kingdom.

[Guest]

No

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

Boast

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Romans 3:27

Except Jesus

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

[The_Patriot21]

Yes its a gift. And God will never turn his back on us. But on the other side of the equation when a person on this planet gives you a gift you can take it but throw it back in their face later. So the question is can you, after accepting the gift choose to throw it back in Gods face later? That wouldn't be God going back on His promise after all-it would be you. Food for thought.

[Guest]

I beleive that salvation is a gift, just as you said. It is certainly obvious, that salvation is not by works. Since the gifts and calling of God are not taken back (Romans 11), and since when you are saved, it is not only a done deal, but you were chosen long before you were born, how can we imagine that God can unchoose you, or that you can work your way out of what you cound never work your way into. Will God take away a gift? A gift, is yours to keep.

We have doubts, because we see people who seem to accept Jesus, walk the walk for a while, and then turn there back on Him, so we assume they lost their salvation. More likely, they naver had salvation to begin with. God knows the heart, only He knows who He chose, who are really saved. We can be well intended, but slef deceived. Tares, can be perfect imitations of Christians, in some cases can appear 'more saved' that the saved do. Some verses to think about:

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

5Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! 6I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test.

12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work forHis good pleasure.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

When I put all of these in my mind, what I concluded is that

• We are chosen by God, not becuase of anything we did
  
• No one (not even us) can snatch us from the Father Hand
  
• God is faithful, and does not repent of His gift of Salvation
  
• Works do not save, but saved persons perform works
  
• Salvation is not something we assume presumptuously, but soberly and fearfully we judge ourselves, examine ourselves, and live righteously as He enables us, less we be self deceived with false security
  

I do not beleive that we can give up our salvation. If we can be saved by God, in spite of our degenerate selves, how are we going to turn our back on Him, once we have been indwelt by the Spirit, regenerated and have the mind of Christ. That suggests that the flesh is stronger than the Spirit in us, that we are mighty enough to overpower the God from whom, no one can snatch his own from, and thatwith the mind of Christ, we would reject Him, when without that mind we accepted Him. I find that unbeleivable. People keep wanting to claim control and have something to do with their own salvation, like all the pagan religions claim. The unique thing about our faith, is it is God who does all the work, and we are not powerful enough to undo the will of God.

[enoob57]

Can that which is born of God become that which is not...

Rather that which was not cannot be that which is... Love, Steven

[missmuffet]

I believe in OSAS(once saved always saved).I do not believe that a genuine believer can lose it.Although they can lose rewards in Heaven.

[Willa]

I believe that a backsliding person may allow his heart to grow so cold by the deceitfulness of unrepentant sin that he no longer cares about his relationship with God. Otherwise there would not be so many warnings in the Bible about this. "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as the rebellion, in the day of trial did in the wilderness. Heb 3:7-8, 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called TODAY, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

However, I also believe that we can trust God to keep us. I don't believe that we need to get saved again each time we sin. We do need to repent and confess our sins to God, and sometimes to others we have wronged. The Holy Spirit is great at doing His job. He will not give up on us till we die. Jesus left the 99 to find the one lost sheep. I don't believe that fully committed Christians will fall away. I worry about those who are double minded, partially committed, and the stubborn or unsubmitted to God.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes its a gift. And God will never turn his back on us. But on the other side of the equation when a person on this planet gives you a gift you can take it but throw it back in their face later. So the question is can you, after accepting the gift choose to throw it back in Gods face later? That wouldn't be God going back on His promise after all-it would be you. Food for thought.

The thing is that salvation is MORE than a gift. It is an inward transformation of the heart. I think sometimes we push the "gift" analogy further than Scripoture intends. The point about it being a gift is that it cannnot be earned. The change that takes place in the heart of a genuine believer precludes them from actually leaving the Lord. It is not in their heart to do so. They may get discouraged with the Lord in seasons of adversity, but the will to completely leave the Lord is not there.

It's like this. I have the physcial power to do harm to a little child, but there is nothing at all inside me that has the will to do so. I can't hurt a child because there is nothing in my mind or heart to prompt such an action. In the same applies to salvation. A genuine believer doesn't have the will to forsake the Lord.

The Bible has a lot to say about those who merely give lip service, and participate in the cultural, external Christian community, but end up falling back into their old lifestyle after a while ("a dog returns to its vomit"). They were never really changed into the new people they were supposed to be.

[The_Patriot21]

yes, but shiloh, heres the question-if a genuine believer doesn't have the will, doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability. And the analogy is faulty, there are many people who growing up, have never had the will, or want to hurt a kid-but something changes and they end up hurting a kid. . .