Floatingaxe Posted June 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The pastor is responsible to God for the flock's spiritual health. If you don't receive correction, you are a rebellious child to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The pastor is responsible to God for the flock's spiritual health. If you don't receive correction, you are a rebellious child to God. Would you please post scripture saying that the pastor is responsible to God for the entire congregations spiritual health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,798 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2013 If people are not tithing, then it is the pastor's duty to speak to them. It is his flock and his responsibility. If they are so miserly that they cannot support a pastor, then they deserve some strong teaching and admonition. It is difficult for visitors to have to sit through it, as they may come away with a bad taste in their mouths, but it is not their spiritual home, and they need to put that into perspective. Try to remember when you were a kid, playing at a friend's house and standing by while your friends mom or dad disciplined your friend. Uncomfortable, but completely appropriate for that family to function as that family. If a church is of God, then God will lead folks to provide for it. If they are not providing perhaps the church leadership is to blame and not the "miserly" members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted June 8, 2013 If people are not tithing, then it is the pastor's duty to speak to them. It is his flock and his responsibility. If they are so miserly that they cannot support a pastor, then they deserve some strong teaching and admonition. It is difficult for visitors to have to sit through it, as they may come away with a bad taste in their mouths, but it is not their spiritual home, and they need to put that into perspective. Try to remember when you were a kid, playing at a friend's house and standing by while your friends mom or dad disciplined your friend. Uncomfortable, but completely appropriate for that family to function as that family. If a church is of God, then God will lead folks to provide for it. If they are not providing perhaps the church leadership is to blame and not the "miserly" members. Yes, the leadership may not be teaching correctly and all of a sudden there's a major shortfall. However, I am saying that if there is a downward flow, then it could be traced to some less than faithful givers or tithers. and there is nothing wrong with leadership addressing the problem, just as there is nothing wrong with them addressing any other problem. However, if there is some coercion or strong-arming as has been testified to here in this forum, that is not OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted June 8, 2013 The pastor is responsible to God for the flock's spiritual health. If you don't receive correction, you are a rebellious child to God. Would you please post scripture saying that the pastor is responsible to God for the entire congregations spiritual health? Of His own ministry, Jesus said, John 10:10-11 The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life. “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd sacrifices his life for the sheep. The pastor is interested in leading his people into the more abundant life. He is interested in his people to such an extent that he will give his life in service for them. Paul gave a charge to his young pastor protégé: 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching. A pastor is not essential to the being of a church, but he is essential to the well-being of the church. The church led by a Spirit-filled pastor needs to realize it was God that joined together the church and the pastor, and woe to the man who endeavors to put asunder what God has joined together. The Bible plainly states the pastor is a gift of God to His church(es): Ephesians 4:11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Peter charges pastors: 1 Peter 5:2 Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you. Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly—not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2013 Its not up to the leadership of the church to decide how much and how often. Only the giver is responsable for this. 2 Corithians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Its not up to the leadership of the church to decide how much and how often. Only the giver is responsable for this. 2 Corithians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. It is the leadership's responsibility to teach and encourage those within their influence to obey the Lord. Tithing is not the same as simple giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thseal Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 825 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 186 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2013 It is the leadership's responsibility to teach and encourage those within their influence to obey the Lord. Tithing is not the same as simple giving. Tithing is 'giving' even when the Lord says 10%, if you give it grundgingly or of necessity even though its your 10%, is God happy with your heart's desire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted June 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted June 8, 2013 It is the leadership's responsibility to teach and encourage those within their influence to obey the Lord. Tithing is not the same as simple giving. Tithing is 'giving' even when the Lord says 10%, if you give it grundgingly or of necessity even though its your 10%, is God happy with your heart's desire? There is giving and there is tithing. He is pleased when we do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 If people are not tithing, then it is the pastor's duty to speak to them. It is his flock and his responsibility. If they are so miserly that they cannot support a pastor, then they deserve some strong teaching and admonition. It is difficult for visitors to have to sit through it, as they may come away with a bad taste in their mouths, but it is not their spiritual home, and they need to put that into perspective. Try to remember when you were a kid, playing at a friend's house and standing by while your friends mom or dad disciplined your friend. Uncomfortable, but completely appropriate for that family to function as that family. While OP was not about tithing, and I thought I was clear on that. I'll comment on the discipline part, though. There are enough tithing threads on Worthy already. I'll say it again. This thread is not about tithing. Its about people who were giving or tithing as they felt lead by the Spirit who were being harassed and otherwise arm twisted, coerced, etc. in an attempt by the church leadership to "encourage" them to give more. They were not miserly, cheap, or depriving the pastor of a living. Please don't make this about something it was not. These folks are my friends and I have gone to this church myself and seen what was happening. There is a big difference between teaching proper NT giving and arm twisting that went so far that I and others would consider it harassment. Elders calling you up almost demanding you give more money is harrassment in my book -- especially when my friends were already tithing to begin with. God loves a cheeful giver. Giving is supposed to be out of love -- not "do it or else." The church leadership was, and still is, way off the rails on this, and that's why they have 2/3rds fewer members than they did 8 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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