The Final Seven Seals Charts/The Four Horsemen/The First Four Seals

[iamlamad]

I have had something on my mind for awhile.The huge earthquake that is coming up in the sixth seal?I wonder if that will be the huge earthquake that scientists have been talking about for the Pacific NW?They have said it could be a 9 or more.Ofcourse it would affect the rest of the world.

I disagree. The earthquake at the 6th seal will be worldwide. Note that all mountains are moved. I am firmly convinced this earthquake will be caused by the dead in Christ rising. That event will CAUSE this earthquake. See Mat, 27:  "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened." Also note the earthquake when the two witnesses rise.

 

Lamad

[iamlamad]

I find it interesting (although I have no explanation as to the WHY!), that only the first four seals are anounced by the four Zoe Beasts. Why just the first 4????

Incidentally, I believe we are IN THE TIME of the opening of that 3rd seal.....

I disagree. I firmly believe we are waiting on the 6th seal. The 5th seal are the martyrs of the church age, and people are being added to that group daily. But at the pretrib rapture, the church age will END, and that group will be complete. The rapture will be the trigger for the 6th seal. Note that John saw the church in heaven right after this, in chapter 7.

 

Lamad

[iamlamad]

The first of the seven seals are known as the four horsemen of Apocalyse.

The first seal introduces the antichrist.Revelation 6:1-2

The second seal causes great warfare Revelation 6:3-4

The third of the seven seals causes famine Revelation 6:5-6

The fourth seal brings plague,famine and warfare Revelation 6:7-8

The fifth seal tell us who will be martyred for their faith in Christ Revelation 6:9-11

When the sixth seal is broken a huge earthquake occurs,causing massive destructionRevelation 6:12-14

The trumpets are the "contents" of the seventh seal Revelation 8:1-5

 

The four horsemen are symbolic.

I am thinking that the white horse symbolizes the antichrist.

 

 I am sure glad that I am not going to be around.

BoPeep, this is only a RUMOR. The first seal was broken about 32 AD and is to represent the CHURCH. Did you notice that the Red, the Black and the Pale ride together, while the white rides alone? He is to represent the church, while the other three are Satan's attempt to STOP the church. Of course he failed! Please note, these three, the red, the black and the pale are limited in their theater of operations to 1/4 of the world. That would be the 1/4 centered on Jerusalem, which would take in Europe and African and the Middle East. Where did both world wars start? Of course Europe. Where have the famines been in my lifetime? Of course, Africa.  These four horsemen have been riding since 32 AD.

[iamlamad]

Lamad

 

A white horse represents a victory.  The winner of a battle came into a city riding a white horse after the city had been taken.  Christ did no such thing; He came in on a donkey; He came as a suffering servant, a Lamb which was slain.  Christ was given a crown of thrones.

 

Johns vsion is future, not past.  The thing is, that it was Christ, the Lamb of God who was in the center of the throne taking the scroll out of God the Fathers right hand.  He was worthy to open the Scroll.  The rider of the first seal is wearing a staphanos (lessor crown)

 

Christ comes riding on a white horse at the end (Rev 19:11-16)  The Battle of Armageddon has been won.  The victor comes down out of Heaven riding on a white horse.    He is wearing a royal diadem (the greatest of crowns)  So the first Seal is different.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Sorry, but I did not say Christ, I said the church. BIG difference.  John used white 17 times in the book of Revelation, each time to represent righteousness. He did not change for this one time. The horse is to represent war, but this is a righteous war, the church making disciples of all nations. 

 

You are also mistaken on the TIMING. Go back and study it again. Notice WHEN the Holy Spirit was sent down: it was the very moment that Jesus arrived in the throne room. If you disagree, you must find a different answer as to why Jesus was not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father. There are a full dozen verses telling us that is where He went to be. Next, you must explain plausibly why "no man was found" in the first search John watched to completion and failure. And then explain why the Holy Spirit was there in the throne room in chapter 4, and sent down in chapter 5. A vision of the past answers all these questions. But just the fact that John was the very moment Jesus arrived in the throne room as a lamb having been slain, should tell you the time. WHEN did Jesus arrive there as a lamb having been slain? It was right after He told Mary not to hold onto Him for He had not yet ascended.  Marv, all these are clues. I know this is not easy to see. I was alone with God for two months, trying to understand this. It was GOD that gave me those three questions. I did not come up with them. I heard His voice and His words. I also heard Him say, "history lesson" to John. It was then, finally, that I understood. John was looking back in time.

 

You will note, Jesus did NOT tell John he would write ONLY of future events. And in chapter one, John was told he would write past, present and future events. one last note, the first five verses of chapter 12 are also a history lesson. They were referring to Jesus' birth.

 

Lamad

[Montana Marv]

Lamad and others

 

Even us pre-trib believers have spats (disagreements).

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[firestormx]

Sorry, but I did not say Christ, I said the church. BIG difference.  John used white 17 times in the book of Revelation, each time to represent righteousness. He did not change for this one time. The horse is to represent war, but this is a righteous war, the church making disciples of all nations. 

 

Lamad

Jesus is the one talking in revelation and he did use white to represent false righteousness. In Matthew 23:27-28 he uses whitewashed tombs to describe someone who appears righteous outwardly but is inwardly full of corruption, just like the anti-Christ will be.

[iamlamad]

Lamad and others

 

Even us pre-trib believers have spats (disagreements).

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Ha ha ha! Only when someone is clearly wrong!  ROFL!!! :-)  (-:

[iamlamad]

 

Sorry, but I did not say Christ, I said the church. BIG difference.  John used white 17 times in the book of Revelation, each time to represent righteousness. He did not change for this one time. The horse is to represent war, but this is a righteous war, the church making disciples of all nations. 

 

Lamad

Jesus is the one talking in revelation and he did use white to represent false righteousness. In Matthew 23:27-28 he uses whitewashed tombs to describe someone who appears righteous outwardly but is inwardly full of corruption, just like the anti-Christ will be.

 

Yes, whitewashed tombs appear white outside. Good point. But this is a prophecy vision given by God. WE can easily see what color God paints evil by looking at the Beast in 13 and the dragon in 12. This book was not meant to confuse, it is a revealing. I am convinced, many times a 5th grader would be closer to the truth on many passages in Revelation, simply because they come with no preconceived ideas. There is truly NOT ONE WORD in the description of the white horse and rider to give even ONE HINT of evil - and rightly so, for this seal was broken in 32 AD to represent the CHURCH sent out to make disciples.

 

DId you notice, the Beast was not introduced to John until chapter 13, and the dragon not until chapter 11? Yet many want to find him here in chapter 6! Anyone can make any verse say almost anything by pulling it out of context. We MUST remember, the first seal has a CONTEXT: it is the vision of the throne room. I bugged God about this vision A LOT. I wanted to know why we needed to know that John wept, and why he wept much. Is that essential information?  I did not see it as such! it seemed nonsensical almost. Why did God include it? I wanted to know, so I kept bugging God about it. I learned long ago, if someone is persistent and hour after hour, day after day bugs God about something, He will ALWAYS answer. And He answered me. First He said, "it shows timing." I searched and meditated and read this passage maybe a hundred times: I could see timing NOWHERE - so I kept bugging Him. Then HE said "it also shows the movement of time." Again I could not see the movement of time either, so I kept right on bugging Him.

 

Finally He showed mercy to my slow mind, and said: I am going to ask you three questions about this vision of the throne room: until you can answer them correctly you will NEVER understand this vision.  (I heard His voice and His words) So He proceeded to ask me three questions.

 

1.  Why was I not seen at the right hand of the Father in the first part of this vision? There are many verses that say I went to be at the right hand of the Father. (Stephen saw him there about 60 years previous.)

 

2. Why was the Holy Spirit seen IN the throne room, when I said that I would send Him down as soon as I ascended?

 

3. Why was "no man found" in the search for one worthy to open the seals? if you read ahead, you see that I was found worthy, but here "no man was found." John wrote that the search ended in failure, and that is why he wept much.

 

 

I could not answer His three questions after weeks of meditating, and one day He spoke again and said, "go study chapter 12." As soon as I got my bible turned to chapter 12, He summarized that chapter to me" This was me introducing John to the dragon..." Among other things He said about that chapter, He said, "count how many times the dragon is mentioned, including pronouns." If I remember right, I counted 32 times. During His explanation, He mentioned that the first five verses of chapter 12 were a "history lesson" to John, speaking of the time of His birth. Finally, after I understand the first five verses was about His birth, He said, "now you can go back to chapters 4 & 5."

 

Suddenly all was different! I had "history lesson" in the back of my mind, and suddenly I had the answer to all three questions! John was looking into the throne room of the past, looking back to a time just before Jesus rose from the dead. Why was HE not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father? Very simple, He was still on earth. Why was the Holy Spirit still there? Very simple; Jesus had not yet ascended. Why was "no man found?" Very simple: Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to become the Redeemer.

 

Remember the "movement of time?" Suddenly John is told that someone had been found. We can understand by this, as soon as one search finished, another was started, but John did not watch this second search, for he was weeping much. But as soon as John was told this, SUDDENLY someone new entered the throne room - someone who had not been there in chapter 4: It was the "lamb having been slain." YOu see, John got to see the very moment Jesus first ascended into the throne room, after telling Mary not to hold onto Him for He had not yet ascended. If you will notice, the moment Jesus arrived in the throne room, the Holy Spirit was sent down.

 

ALL this is the context of the first seal - and was written to show us the TIMING of the first seal. It was when Jesus ascended into heaven, about 32 AD.

 

This is a very personal story. Many will simply not believe it, because God has never spoken to them. However, it is written, "my sheep here my voice." It is NOT unusual to hear His voice, it is unusual NOT to hear His voice. God TAUGHT this vision to me, line upon line, and I got it. I am as sure of this as Paul was about His gospel. Both came through revelation. However, it will be very hard to see if preconceptions are in the way. If the readers cannot believe this, then they must come up with another answer to these three questions.

Lamad

Edited July 17, 2013 by iamlamad

[firestormx]

In Matthew 24 Jesus talks about the abomination which causes desolation and points to this event as a future event, that has not yet happened and will happen at the end. What does this have to do with the first seal? Read the verses below carefully.

Daniel 11:23-31

23 After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power. 24 When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses—but only for a time.

25 “With a large army he will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South. The king of the South will wage war with a large and very powerful army, but he will not be able to stand because of the plots devised against him. 26 Those who eat from the king’s provisions will try to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall in battle. 27 The two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will sit at the same table and lie to each other, but to no avail, because an end will still come at the appointed time. 28 The king of the North will return to his own country with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant. He will take action against it and then return to his own country.

29 “At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.

31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

Now notice, the same person who commits the abomination of desolation is the same person, who after the 70th week begins with an agreement made with him, He overcomes with flatteries. with his mouth. It's only later that he overcomes with violence, the 2nd seal. Scripture does not support the first rider being Jesus.

2nd, We do not go out and conquer. Jesus already conquered the whole world or overcome it. Making disciples is not conquering. This seal has not been broken. I urge you to go back before God and let him correct you on this. Everything in revelation and in the prophecies that Jesus spoke can be found in the old testament. Search them out.
 

Edited July 17, 2013 by firestormx

[iamlamad]

In Matthew 24 Jesus talks about the abomination which causes desolation and points to this event as a future event, that has not yet happened and will happen at the end. What does this have to do with the first seal? Read the verses below carefully.

Daniel 11:23-31

23 After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power. 24 When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses—but only for a time.

25 “With a large army he will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South. The king of the South will wage war with a large and very powerful army, but he will not be able to stand because of the plots devised against him. 26 Those who eat from the king’s provisions will try to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall in battle. 27 The two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will sit at the same table and lie to each other, but to no avail, because an end will still come at the appointed time. 28 The king of the North will return to his own country with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant. He will take action against it and then return to his own country.

29 “At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.

31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

Now notice, the same person who commits the abomination of desolation is the same person, who after the 70th week begins with an agreement made with him, He overcomes with flatteries. with his mouth. It's only later that he overcomes with violence, the 2nd seal. Scripture does not support the first rider being Jesus.

2nd, We do not go out and conquer. Jesus already conquered the whole world or overcome it. Making disciples is not conquering. This seal has not been broken. I urge you to go back before God and let him correct you on this. Everything in revelation and in the prophecies that Jesus spoke can be found in the old testament. Search them out.

 

YOu missed my last sentence:

"If the readers cannot believe this, then they must come up with another answer to these three questions."

 

You say "this seal has not been broken." I urge you to study those three questions God gave me. This is the context of the first seal. How can you hope to be right about the first seal, if you cannot understand the context.  Did you overlook the fact that in this vision, John got to see the very moment Jesus ascended into the throne room with the Holy Spirit, who was IMMEDIATELY sent down to earth? When did that happen? Of course it happened around 32 or 33 AD.  You cannot pull the first seal out of this context!  (Well, many do, but they are wrong.)

 

You want to ignore those questions so you can continue believing your own theory. Your theory on the first seal is OFF by almost 2000 years! That seal was broken in 32 AD.  That word "conquer" came from a Greek word, "nikeo." It was translated far more as "overcome." AV — overcome 24, conquer 2  (strongs) 

 

So think of the church as OVERCOMING rather than conquering.  Satan thinks he owns the world, and certainly would not just stand aside and allow the church to advance freely to every nation. We can see today that it is ILLEGAL to preach the gospel in all Muslim nations. Satan is still fighting to keep the gospel out. You are certainly knowledgable of the story, "through Gates of Splender and the film, "Point of the spear" about the four missionaries who were killed in South American? This is the way it has always been in taking the gospel to new nations. Did you ever read of the missionary Judson, first missionary to Burma, and what they did to him. That was a STRONGHOLD of Buddhism. Certainly you understand, to take the gospel to a Buddhist or Muslim nation, there must be some "overcoming" or conquering? I agree with you that Jesus conquered, but that did not prevent those four missionaries from being speared to death, while shouting in their language, "we are your friends."  Missionaries have to convice the natives that Jesus conquered the devil! One must stay alive long enough to make disciples...and that can be a problem.

 

If you knew the chronology of Revelation, you would now the first half of the week is from the 7th seal to the 7th trumpet. It is during this first half of the week that the man of sin is getting established. Perhaps it is then that he conquers the three kings. But it is also the time of the trumpet judgments. It is also possible this waring will happen before the week is begun.

 

Lamad