GoldenEagle Posted July 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2013 I don't think we ought to counter 'ungodly culture' by extreme extra biblical measures. I find that to be counterproductive. You still haven't explained where it says this was forced. And whoever said this was "biblical"? Bary, you aren't analyzing this issue scientifically, it seems. Rather, the impression that comes across is a knee-jerk reaction. How come? Actually I think GE is expressing my views on this pretty well also, if I'm not coming across clearly. My concern is with people attaching this notion that couples that don't kiss are more 'pure' or 'moral' than ones that do, even though that is not a position that is justified biblically. If they do it to avoid immoral behavior then that is between them and God. Great. Yup. It was a personal choice. It didn't make us any holier than anyone else. It was just we understood how much we were attracted to each other physically, spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, etc. By waiting to kiss we simply avoided a whole lot of other temptations... All things which are completely okay in marriage. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widor1 Posted July 7, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 105 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1987 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I think Romans 14 says it all: 1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS TO GOD." 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way. Romans 14:1-13 We are all trying to be Christ-like. If this is how they do it, good for them! It's not biblical, true; and the kids will have to decide for themselves later in life if that is how they want to date, and how they want to raise their children, etc. Hopefully, they will know what sin is, and isn't. "For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 7, 2013 What A Joy It Is To Read Of Godly Love Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned. Song Od Solomon 8:7 Between A Man And His Bride Today He brought me to the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love. Song Of Solomon 2:4 Beloved Sister You Have Blessed Me Thanks, Joe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I don't know that imposing unnecessary restrictions is a good thing. If people choose to do that, fine, but this could easily turn into a situation in which couples are under pressure to do this, even though it's not actually sinful to kiss, and in the process create unnecessary guilt, divisions and so on. I agree. Kind of like everyone should dress a certain way? The problem is when we take personal convictions and decide they're Biblical truths (for everyone). Is waiting to kiss until marriage a good thing? Sure. My wife and I did that. We lived in the same city, were in our mid-twenties, we had a long engagement, and saw each other weekly (and almost every other day). It was helpful in order to not be tempted to go further physically. But is it mandatory for everyone? Nope. My parents kissed before marriage. So did my grandparents (on both sides). No problem. God bless, GE I don't think we ought to counter 'ungodly culture' by extreme extra biblical measures. I find that to be counterproductive. You still haven't explained where it says this was forced. And whoever said this was "biblical"? Bary, you aren't analyzing this issue scientifically, it seems. Rather, the impression that comes across is a knee-jerk reaction. How come? Actually I think GE is expressing my views on this pretty well also, if I'm not coming across clearly. My concern is with people attaching this notion that couples that don't kiss are more 'pure' or 'moral' than ones that do, even though that is not a position that is justified biblically. If they do it to avoid immoral behavior then that is between them and God. Great. OK, but where does it state anywhere in the article that anyone is sticking their noses up towards others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolutionist90 Posted July 7, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 46 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 460 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/26/1990 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I agree that a certain lifestyle choice does not make one holier than others but the decision might be better than others. We have soaring STD rates, teenage pregnancies and children being born to unwed mothers with disappearing fathers. I don't think this community is forcing others but I do believe pressure is not a bad thing when it is for good decisions. Many have long stop pressuring teens to stop having sex and there has been less pressure on males to take care of their children once they father them. Once upon a time virginity was expected and celebrated for both man and women so there was societal pressure and I don't think that was a bad thing. There is a balance of pressure and expectation- it cannot be too high nor can it be too low. It was seen as pure and while I don't think one who is a virgin is necessarily holy I do believe it is a much better choice than an alternative. The "Well it is not good for everyone" notion though it true for some cases has been the push for things like teen sex, casual sex or promiscuity- the term seems based in moral relativity. The problem with that notion is that no one is expected to do good decisions because the concept of a better decision is lost in that morally relative notion. The concept of a good decision (like waiting till marriage to kiss or have sex) is not expected and there is no pressured applied. By pressure I mean a parent expressing happiness and encouragement for their child's -decision and have an expectation- a trust- that their child will keep their vows. If they are sticking their noses up at people then that is bad but if they simply are happy with themselves for not falling others bad choices then that is not a bad thing- that is not arrogance that is them giving a pat on their backs. There is a difference between the sin of pride and being proud of oneself in this dazed world. If kissing is how far they want to take it too prohibit any sticky situation then that is good. If their community applies a good amount of pressure of encouragement and have an expectation of the people because they trust the people to do what is right then that is okay. There is no more good pressure in this society. No more pressure for a man to take care of his child, for a woman to not abort her child after a casual sex night, for teenagers to wait until having sex (or at least wear contraceptives) and there is no more expectation for anyone to do anymore. And even today even Christians have molded the gospel to accommodate modernity and maybe even slipped into moral relativity in which nothing is absolute and the decisions of others is good even if they have horrible outcomes. And I say all this as a person who is waiting till marriage and maybe even waiting until marriage to kiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted July 7, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I agree that a certain lifestyle choice does not make one holier than others but the decision might be better than others. We have soaring STD rates, teenage pregnancies and children being born to unwed mothers with disappearing fathers. I don't think this community is forcing others but I do believe pressure is not a bad thing when it is for good decisions. Many have long stop pressuring teens to stop having sex and there has been less pressure on males to take care of their children once they father them. Once upon a time virginity was expected and celebrated for both man and women so there was societal pressure and I don't think that was a bad thing. There is a balance of pressure and expectation- it cannot be too high nor can it be too low. It was seen as pure and while I don't think one who is a virgin is necessarily holy I do believe it is a much better choice than an alternative. The "Well it is not good for everyone" notion though it true for some cases has been the push for things like teen sex, casual sex or promiscuity- the term seems based in moral relativity. The problem with that notion is that no one is expected to do good decisions because the concept of a better decision is lost in that morally relative notion. The concept of a good decision (like waiting till marriage to kiss or have sex) is not expected and there is no pressured applied. By pressure I mean a parent expressing happiness and encouragement for their child's -decision and have an expectation- a trust- that their child will keep their vows. If they are sticking their noses up at people then that is bad but if they simply are happy with themselves for not falling others bad choices then that is not a bad thing- that is not arrogance that is them giving a pat on their backs. There is a difference between the sin of pride and being proud of oneself in this dazed world. If kissing is how far they want to take it too prohibit any sticky situation then that is good. If their community applies a good amount of pressure of encouragement and have an expectation of the people because they trust the people to do what is right then that is okay. There is no more good pressure in this society. No more pressure for a man to take care of his child, for a woman to not abort her child after a casual sex night, for teenagers to wait until having sex (or at least wear contraceptives) and there is no more expectation for anyone to do anymore. And even today even Christians have molded the gospel to accommodate modernity and maybe even slipped into moral relativity in which nothing is absolute and the decisions of others is good even if they have horrible outcomes. And I say all this as a person who is waiting till marriage and maybe even waiting until marriage to kiss. Yes, I agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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