Knowingtruth Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I see a lot of squabbling. Tongues still exist, I don't think they are used as at 'Pentecost" Acts 2:4 - they began to speak in other tongues (plural). Jews who did not speak Hebrew now heard the Gospel Message in their own tongue/language. It is well established fact that tongues had ceased for thousands of years before the phenomenon was revived about 100 years ago in USA. The tongues that required no interpreter as indicated in the entire book of Acts may still exist even though I have not observed. For me, I would not get any satisfaction of walking into a Church speaking Latin or Mandarin. Unless there was an interpreter for me. This is not the part of the phenomenon of speaking in unknown tongue observed in Corinth only! The HS must intercede for us, whether we speak in tongues or not. He is a perfect one, we are not, thus He does intercede for us with groanings for us, because we really do not know how to pray adequately. He is our helper, our comforter. Let Him do His job. Yes, He is our helper and comforter, certainly not a groaner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 When in doubt, it is better to look for other sources in the Scripture to get clarification. There is no source in the entire Bible to indicate that the Holy Spirit groans or prays on behalf of a person in his prayerful address to God.One cannot build a castle of theology on a single small stone piece! Why not? I hear people make that claim, and I don't agree. I need but one verse to tell me something to believe it. No wonder thousands of denominations have sprung up at nooks and corners of the world! A kind of Babel condition imposed by God for the deviated! I could make the same claim concerning the way you come up with your doctrine. You don't like something, so you claim it means something other than what scripture actually says. If I did that throughout the Word of God, I certainly could come up with strange doctrines. Where it says that God so loved the World, I could simply say it really means he hated the world, or that world means the planet and not the human race. I have no reason to accept anything you have said, because in some cases it contradicts the plain meaning of the text, and in others, you simply can't prove your point. It is nothing but theories you have devised in your own mind, like the notion Paul was discouraging speaking in tongues, when he did no such thing. The answer is very simple. Paul desired greater gifts to be sought! (1 Corinthians 12:31) Question... KT you're saying we shouldn't base our theology on one verse of the Bible in red and here you're doing the same thing orange with 1 Cor. 12:31. How does this make sense? God bless, GE There is a lot of weight behind the one I have quoted. My OP is not based on one verse against another. In the course of discussion involving several verses, I have indicated one verse that may answer the particual question that was asked. There's a lot of weight behind all of Scripture. Taken one passage out of context, basing a whole doctrine on it, and saying "this is the answer" is probably not the best way to handle Scripture. It's called proof-texting I believe. Just saying... God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 Considering the preceedings verses wherein groanings are attributed to created beings like animals and people(vs. 22 & 23), our interpretation should be groanings of us that we cannot express in words. Do you think the Holy Spirit will be speechless like mortal men? That is a preposterous thinking, I suppose! I'm not sure you're going to be able to convince people differently brother. You are more than welcome to try. Those that speak in tongues will likely continue to do so. Those who do not speak in tongues will likely continue not to speak in tongues. Unless of course there is an intervention of the Holy Spirit. This isn't a salvation issue. We can always agree to disagree without insulting each other (preposterous thinking?). God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted August 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 19, 2013 KT You really don't how some wrestle with God through prayer. We groan because we cannot adequately pray, The HS groans for us because we cannot adequately pray. His groaning is part of His intercessory. Scripture says He the HS groans. Believe it. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowingtruth Posted August 20, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 When in doubt, it is better to look for other sources in the Scripture to get clarification. There is no source in the entire Bible to indicate that the Holy Spirit groans or prays on behalf of a person in his prayerful address to God.One cannot build a castle of theology on a single small stone piece! Why not? I hear people make that claim, and I don't agree. I need but one verse to tell me something to believe it. No wonder thousands of denominations have sprung up at nooks and corners of the world! A kind of Babel condition imposed by God for the deviated! I could make the same claim concerning the way you come up with your doctrine. You don't like something, so you claim it means something other than what scripture actually says. If I did that throughout the Word of God, I certainly could come up with strange doctrines. Where it says that God so loved the World, I could simply say it really means he hated the world, or that world means the planet and not the human race. I have no reason to accept anything you have said, because in some cases it contradicts the plain meaning of the text, and in others, you simply can't prove your point. It is nothing but theories you have devised in your own mind, like the notion Paul was discouraging speaking in tongues, when he did no such thing. The answer is very simple. Paul desired greater gifts to be sought! (1 Corinthians 12:31) Question... KT you're saying we shouldn't base our theology on one verse of the Bible in red and here you're doing the same thing orange with 1 Cor. 12:31. How does this make sense? God bless, GE There is a lot of weight behind the one I have quoted. My OP is not based on one verse against another. In the course of discussion involving several verses, I have indicated one verse that may answer the particual question that was asked. There's a lot of weight behind all of Scripture. Taken one passage out of context, basing a whole doctrine on it, and saying "this is the answer" is probably not the best way to handle Scripture. It's called proof-texting I believe. Just saying... Am I doing that? Am I not telling that 1 Corinthians chapter 12 is not the complete Bible, and it cannot be a basis for a doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowingtruth Posted August 20, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 I'm not sure you're going to be able to convince people differently brother. You are more than welcome to try. Those that speak in tongues will likely continue to do so. Those who do not speak in tongues will likely continue not to speak in tongues. Unless of course there is an intervention of the Holy Spirit. More and more churches are giving up this phenomena! Let the light shine on them! This isn't a salvation issue. We can always agree to disagree without insulting each other (preposterous thinking?). I think that is the issue for some! Their perspective may dictate so as to drag down the Holy Spirit to groan for them. God forbid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowingtruth Posted August 20, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 625 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 226 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/15/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 KT You really don't how some wrestle with God through prayer. We groan because we cannot adequately pray, The HS groans for us because we cannot adequately pray. His groaning is part of His intercessory. Scripture says He the HS groans. Believe it. Why should I believe something that blasphemy the Holy Spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted August 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2013 The Holy Spirit is groaning.For those who are into speaking in tongues that is your choice to do so but please do not convince me to.It is just not my cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted August 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,136 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2013 KT You really don't how some wrestle with God through prayer. We groan because we cannot adequately pray, The HS groans for us because we cannot adequately pray. His groaning is part of His intercessory. Scripture says He the HS groans. Believe it. Why should I believe something that blasphemy the Holy Spirit? KT No blasphemy. Rom 8:26 - In the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, BUT the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2013 KT You really don't how some wrestle with God through prayer. We groan because we cannot adequately pray, The HS groans for us because we cannot adequately pray. His groaning is part of His intercessory. Scripture says He the HS groans. Believe it. Why should I believe something that blasphemy the Holy Spirit? I would be very careful saying scripture itself is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In fact, that is impossible. If you don't want to accept scripture, that is your choice, but making statements like that will do no less then grieve the Spirit. In the many years I have studied this, I have come to realize that there are some who will right out refuse to accept tongues even if the Spirit Himself moved them to speak in such. They have set their feet so firmly in disbelief to the point of even referring to speaking in tongues as demonic. If you don't believe, as it has been said, then don't. By judging others for how they themselves are led by God, denying parts of scripture in doing so, you are causing more discord then you realize. Nobody is forcing you to accept any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and do realize that it is the Holy Spirit who gives out the gifts, not Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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