evolution definition and other issues

[RobbyPants]

The truth is not complicated robby, it is quite simple. The truth is in the Bible. If you are not for Jesus, you are against Him. I have divided no one into any group. Jesus did that and He was quite clear.

 

You would like people to think the world is complicated, when it is very simple. There are those for Christ and those opposed to him. You attempt to make the world seem complicated because you are confused yourself and you want others to be confused as well.

 

Jesus is Lord. Simple. You fight against God, not me or any other man, but God himself and you think you can win?

Two things:

• You did explicitly separate people into two groups aside from "Christian". In the quotes of yours that I quoted in my response, you referred to "theistic evolutionists" and the "Atheists/the godless". That wasn't me doing the splitting. I was just applying labels for simplicity of the post.
• Like it or not, in reality, people do things other than fundamentalist -> theistic evolutionist -> atheist. It really does happen.

Edited September 9, 2013 by RobbyPants

[Guest ninhao]

If you believe the world is billions of years old, you have a weakness in your defense from the get go. The godless will exploit that weakness. One can go to their death bed believing in God and evolution, though that may very well be a difficult task and I commend those that do, but my point is not about the strength of faith of a man, but the motives of those that are teaching him lies.

 

 

The Bible makes no claims of the age of the Earth so it will only be in dispute when Christians attempt to form an age argument by incorrectly applying scripture not intended for this purpose. It forms a diversion, which needn't exist, from the Christian mandate. Atheists don't believe in a Creator and it isn't strange that they use any reason to deny God.

 

You are forming unnecessary battles between Atheists and Christians and the age of the Earth shouldn't be placed as a stumbling block. BTW How does an old Earth weaken the Creation account ?

[Ninevite]

The Bible makes no claims of the age of the Earth so it will only be in dispute when Christians attempt to form an age argument by incorrectly applying scripture not intended for this purpose. It forms a diversion, which needn't exist, from the Christian mandate. Atheists don't believe in a Creator and it isn't strange that they use any reason to deny God.

 

You are forming unnecessary battles between Atheists and Christians and the age of the Earth shouldn't be placed as a stumbling block. BTW How does an old Earth weaken the Creation account ?

 

 

The Bible does in fact make a claim in regard to the age of the Earth and it's rather clear. That was the whole point of the OP. Some of us take the Bible literally and others do not. Personally I find it telling that many so blindly believe man's word that they question God's word...age of the Earth? I think so. To some of us, the issue is important.

 

I don't form unnecessary battles...I don't form any battles at all. The world is wicked enough to accomplish that without my help.

[Diatheosis]

In the face of it all, none of us were there when it happened. Personally, I have come to the point I am open to any possibility without feeling any need to vehemently defend any version of Creation. For me, God will always be the first cause and the Sovereign Creator, my Heavenly Father even.

 

Many interpretations of the scripture have come and gone, so too with scientific theories. But the Word of God, will prevail forever, regardless of what we think or make of it.

 

That said, human beings have the curiosity built in them, by God. We ask questions, and are ready to find out the answers sometimes at the risk of our own wellbeing. Whilst science has its place, if used correctly for right purposes, so does religion, at least when it's about what it should really be about. How man operates within these two aspects of life is another thing.

 

Science should not be its own highest authority, neither religion. Which means, the rules set by man's understanding can never reach the infinite reality of God. What is left for anyone not believing in personal Creator, is still an idea of some kind of absolute truth. Many scientist have contributed for our wellbeing in some way without attending the church, or believing in the same things. While personally experiencing Jesus Christ will certainly deliver taste of eternity and understanding of the truth being there, it's a long walk to mature in it, to be able to say something about that truth and our relation to it with no pride involved whatsoever. The truth I speak of is something that pulsates through our heart when we witness of it, it almost speaks on its own with no words needed. Yet, my walk has barely begun. Who am I to say such things?

 

What I mean to say is, the Truth cannot be changed by us. If you look through the history different views have existed. Time will show what is yet to come. No matter how literally we take the Bible, we still think much differently from the believers who lived centuries ago.

[JDavis]

The Bible makes no claims of the age of the Earth so it will only be in dispute when Christians attempt to form an age argument by incorrectly applying scripture not intended for this purpose. It forms a diversion, which needn't exist, from the Christian mandate. Atheists don't believe in a Creator and it isn't strange that they use any reason to deny God.

You are forming unnecessary battles between Atheists and Christians and the age of the Earth shouldn't be placed as a stumbling block. BTW How does an old Earth weaken the Creation account ?

The Bible does in fact make a claim in regard to the age of the Earth and it's rather clear. That was the whole point of the OP. Some of us take the Bible literally and others do not. Personally I find it telling that many so blindly believe man's word that they question God's word...age of the Earth? I think so. To some of us, the issue is important.

I don't form unnecessary battles...I don't form any battles at all. The world is wicked enough to accomplish that without my help.

No, really the Bible does not give an age for the earth, any age estimation is based upon assumptions of meanings of words and phrases....assumptions that people have been disagreeing over for a few 1000 years.

One does not need to be an evolutionist to believe in an old earth

[neil_]

   Of course we need common language to communicate, but it is also good to understand how these words may affect our experience of reality 

 

Indeed. Very intelligent remark by the way.

 

 

 I hope this does not cause even deeper blocking into two separate camps as believers don't want the scientific language affect their mind and nonbelievers want keep their intellect untouched by the religious/spiritual impact. Is there a chance for some mutual understanding in any way?

 

Well, I disproved big bang based on science alone – so I guess the answer is that it depends on each person.

 

 

  What I mean to say is, the Truth cannot be changed by us. 

 

And yet, that’s exactly what evolutionists are trying to do…

[neil_]

 The major problem with "theistic evolution" is that every aspect of the theory is exactly the opposite of the Bible. Evolution is designed to contradict the Bible and destroy it's credibility. Trying to reconcile the two world views is a fool's errand. It cannot be done. That doesn't stop people from trying though.  

 

I completely agree.

 

 

   If you believe the world is billions of years old, you have a weakness in your defense from the get go.       

 

I agree yet again.

 

 

  The truth is not complicated robby, it is quite simple. The truth is in the Bible. If you are not for Jesus, you are against Him. I have divided no one into any group. Jesus did that and He was quite clear. 

 

So true…

 

 

  You would like people to think the world is complicated, when it is very simple. 

 

Indeed it is. Now you’ll have to find a cosmology matching that description…

[neil_]

  The Bible makes no claims of the age of the Earth 

 

Indeed. Instead, The Bible makes a claim about the age of the whole Creation…

[neil_]

 the Bible does not give an age for the earth, any age estimation is based upon assumptions of meanings of words and phrases  

 

That’s the point: that you don’t interpret any words. You simply add up numbers…

 

 

  One does not need to be an evolutionist to believe in an old earth 

 

Of course he does. How else to claim an old Earth?

[Guest ninhao]

 

The Bible does in fact make a claim in regard to the age of the Earth and it's rather clear. That was the whole point of the OP. Some of us take the Bible literally and others do not. Personally I find it telling that many so blindly believe man's word that they question God's word...age of the Earth? I think so. To some of us, the issue is important.

 

I don't form unnecessary battles...I don't form any battles at all. The world is wicked enough to accomplish that without my help.

 

 

Can you present where the Bible makes it clear how old the Earth is and tell me how an old Earth weakens the Creation account ? 

 

I would like to understand why the age of the Earth is important to you.