Butch5 Posted September 18, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 18, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? No, the foundation of the Christian faith is in the OT. The entire Bible is the working out of the promises that God made to Abraham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted September 19, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted September 19, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? No, the foundation of the Christian faith is in the OT. The entire Bible is the working out of the promises that God made to Abraham. OT = the law NT = the faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 19, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 19, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? No, the foundation of the Christian faith is in the OT. The entire Bible is the working out of the promises that God made to Abraham. OT = the law NT = the faith Actually, the Law was given to the Jews. Abraham was in the OT and not under the Law. Additionally, the OT is as much about faith as the NT. However, as I pointed out the Christian hope is based on the promises God made to Abraham. Without the OT there are no promises to fulfill, thus there would be no NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeinChrist Posted September 19, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 192 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 635 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2013 They both are of equal important for without the OT, we have no knowledge of our need for a Saviour, and without the NT we wouldn't know the Redeemer is Jesus Christ. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Galatians 3:24 Jesus even states to the Jews: Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life; and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 And Paul tells us that the OT/Tanakh was written for our learning:; For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4 We also know from the OT the importance of the NT/B'rit Hadashah. Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His Temple, even the Messenger of the Covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the LORD of Hosts. Malachi 3:1 The first messenger is John the Baptist but the Messenger of the Covenant/Testament is no other than Jesus Christ, and without the NT we have no message of this Covenant. Even Isaiah speaks of this in Isaiah 40:1-11 to which Peter refers to in I Peter 1:17-25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted September 19, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted September 19, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? No, the foundation of the Christian faith is in the OT. The entire Bible is the working out of the promises that God made to Abraham. OT = the law NT = the faith Actually, the Law was given to the Jews. Abraham was in the OT and not under the Law. Additionally, the OT is as much about faith as the NT. However, as I pointed out the Christian hope is based on the promises God made to Abraham. Without the OT there are no promises to fulfill, thus there would be no NT. i agree the law was given to and for the Jews. I agree Abraham was not under the law and he was in the OT. Yes their is a lot of faith expressed and taught in OT. Today because Jesus came to earth I use only NT although Ive read OT and NT twice straight through. I stay mainly in NT now days. sorry bout bold type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 19, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 19, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? No, the foundation of the Christian faith is in the OT. The entire Bible is the working out of the promises that God made to Abraham. OT = the law NT = the faith Actually, the Law was given to the Jews. Abraham was in the OT and not under the Law. Additionally, the OT is as much about faith as the NT. However, as I pointed out the Christian hope is based on the promises God made to Abraham. Without the OT there are no promises to fulfill, thus there would be no NT. i agree the law was given to and for the Jews. I agree Abraham was not under the law and he was in the OT. Yes their is a lot of faith expressed and taught in OT. Today because Jesus came to earth I use only NT although Ive read OT and NT twice straight through. I stay mainly in NT now days. sorry bout bold type Hi Coheir, My point is that it is the promises that were made to Abraham that the Christian looks forward to. God promised to give the promised land to Abraham and his Seed as an everlasting possession. Scripture says he never received any of the land, therefore for God to honor His promise to Abraham He must give him the land in the resurrection. The land was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Paul says that it is this promise that is the believers hope or the "Anchor of the Soul" 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.€ 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:8-29 KJV) Paul uses the phrase, "the blessing of Abraham" this phrase only appears one other place in the Scriptures and it refers to the land, the inheritance promised to Abraham. KJV Genesis 28:1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan. 2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother. 3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; 4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. (Gen 28:1-4 KJV) Paul said that the "blessing lf Abraham" might come on the Gentiles through faith in Christ. It is this promise that is the final hope of the Christian. The promised land inheritance was made to Abraham and his Seed. The Jews understood that collectively, however, Paul points out that God did not mean seed and of many (plural) seeds but rather He meant it singularly as of one, He meant Christ. Paul goes on to say that those who have been baptized are Abraham's seed and heir according to the promise. That is the land promise. So you see, the OT is absolutely essential to our understanding of the hope in the NT. Without the OT we would have no understanding of what was promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AFlameOfFire Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Yeah, for instance here and an ensign is something "lifted up" (even as Jesus used Moses lifting up the serpent on a pole) Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. ^ And so is inclusive of the Gentiles, and in Isaiah speaks to "his rest" Whereas the apostles speak of the gospel being preached who did not enter his rest, and let us fear lest a promise is left to us (also) in respects to entering his rest. So the NT springboards off of those thing written in the OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? Both are equally important. Together they record God's plan of redemption, and all scripture is beneficial. I didn't really start to understand the NT properly until I had read through the OT, especially going through the Exodus, the Law, and on from there. I went through it the first time with a "Read Through the Bible in a Year" type list someone gave me years ago and it made a big difference for me. I didn't think the OT was all that important until then, and I quickly discovered how wrong I was. There were so many references to the Law, etc. in the NT that didn't make much sense until I read the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted September 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? No, the foundation of the Christian faith is in the OT. The entire Bible is the working out of the promises that God made to Abraham. OT = the law NT = the faith Actually, the Law was given to the Jews. Abraham was in the OT and not under the Law. Additionally, the OT is as much about faith as the NT. However, as I pointed out the Christian hope is based on the promises God made to Abraham. Without the OT there are no promises to fulfill, thus there would be no NT. i agree the law was given to and for the Jews. I agree Abraham was not under the law and he was in the OT. Yes their is a lot of faith expressed and taught in OT. Today because Jesus came to earth I use only NT although Ive read OT and NT twice straight through. I stay mainly in NT now days. sorry bout bold type Hi Coheir, My point is that it is the promises that were made to Abraham that the Christian looks forward to. God promised to give the promised land to Abraham and his Seed as an everlasting possession. Scripture says he never received any of the land, therefore for God to honor His promise to Abraham He must give him the land in the resurrection. The land was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Paul says that it is this promise that is the believers hope or the "Anchor of the Soul" 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.€ 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:8-29 KJV) Paul uses the phrase, "the blessing of Abraham" this phrase only appears one other place in the Scriptures and it refers to the land, the inheritance promised to Abraham. KJV Genesis 28:1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan. 2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother. 3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; 4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. (Gen 28:1-4 KJV) Paul said that the "blessing lf Abraham" might come on the Gentiles through faith in Christ. It is this promise that is the final hope of the Christian. The promised land inheritance was made to Abraham and his Seed. The Jews understood that collectively, however, Paul points out that God did not mean seed and of many (plural) seeds but rather He meant it singularly as of one, He meant Christ. Paul goes on to say that those who have been baptized are Abraham's seed and heir according to the promise. That is the land promise. So you see, the OT is absolutely essential to our understanding of the hope in the NT. Without the OT we would have no understanding of what was promising. Very simply, there are a number of promises made to Abraham. The land promise went to Isaac and Jacob, and their physical descendents, forever. The Messianic promises were about the seed, and go to those who receive their inheritance because of the seed. In otherwords, the land promise is a promise to physical descendents and the seed promise is to spiritual descendents. Ultimately, there will be a New earth, and a New Jerusalem, and this promise is thru the seed or spiritual descendents. At that time, the New earth will only be occupied by the Seed and the Spiritual descendents. All others will have been caste into the lake of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch5 Posted September 20, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 559 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 136 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/09/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1962 Share Posted September 20, 2013 just the question: is NT more important than OT? No, the foundation of the Christian faith is in the OT. The entire Bible is the working out of the promises that God made to Abraham. OT = the law NT = the faith Actually, the Law was given to the Jews. Abraham was in the OT and not under the Law. Additionally, the OT is as much about faith as the NT. However, as I pointed out the Christian hope is based on the promises God made to Abraham. Without the OT there are no promises to fulfill, thus there would be no NT. i agree the law was given to and for the Jews. I agree Abraham was not under the law and he was in the OT. Yes their is a lot of faith expressed and taught in OT. Today because Jesus came to earth I use only NT although Ive read OT and NT twice straight through. I stay mainly in NT now days. sorry bout bold type Hi Coheir, My point is that it is the promises that were made to Abraham that the Christian looks forward to. God promised to give the promised land to Abraham and his Seed as an everlasting possession. Scripture says he never received any of the land, therefore for God to honor His promise to Abraham He must give him the land in the resurrection. The land was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Paul says that it is this promise that is the believers hope or the "Anchor of the Soul" 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.€ 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:8-29 KJV) Paul uses the phrase, "the blessing of Abraham" this phrase only appears one other place in the Scriptures and it refers to the land, the inheritance promised to Abraham. KJV Genesis 28:1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan. 2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother. 3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; 4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. (Gen 28:1-4 KJV) Paul said that the "blessing lf Abraham" might come on the Gentiles through faith in Christ. It is this promise that is the final hope of the Christian. The promised land inheritance was made to Abraham and his Seed. The Jews understood that collectively, however, Paul points out that God did not mean seed and of many (plural) seeds but rather He meant it singularly as of one, He meant Christ. Paul goes on to say that those who have been baptized are Abraham's seed and heir according to the promise. That is the land promise. So you see, the OT is absolutely essential to our understanding of the hope in the NT. Without the OT we would have no understanding of what was promising. Very simply, there are a number of promises made to Abraham. The land promise went to Isaac and Jacob, and their physical descendents, forever. The Messianic promises were about the seed, and go to those who receive their inheritance because of the seed. In otherwords, the land promise is a promise to physical descendents and the seed promise is to spiritual descendents. Ultimately, there will be a New earth, and a New Jerusalem, and this promise is thru the seed or spiritual descendents. At that time, the New earth will only be occupied by the Seed and the Spiritual descendents. All others will have been caste into the lake of fire. Actually the land was promised to Abraham himself as an everlasting possession. The physical Jews thought that they were the "seed" that was also included in the promise, however, Paul argues that that is not the case, He says the "Seed" is Christ. That's why Jesus told Nicodemus he had to be born again. Nicodemus was a Jew and as such believed that he was an heir of the promises made to Abraham. Jesus tells him no, your physical birth is not sufficient to gain you entrance into the kingdom of God, you must be born again. All the physical Jews were given was a temporary allotment in the land as long as they kept the law. Paul argues in Galatians 3 that the law cannot overturn the promise God made to Abraham. God also promised to give that land to Isaac and Jacob. These men and Christ are the only ones who were given this promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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