Where is the true Law of God?

[Guest]

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men :

 

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,

This people honors me with their lips;

But their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me,

Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9)

Dear friend, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: that God's law was changed by the scribes. This is for what the Old Testament Law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

 

The Word Of God

 

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

 

Straight From The Law Man

 

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:16

 

~

 

Thank You Beloved For Standing For Truth

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

Be Blessed

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[GoldenEagle]

You say that all the commandments for you is the same, but Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament, precepts that were contrary to the precepts of the Gospel.

 

Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says :

<snip>

 

The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away"  (Matthew 5: 27-30)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn ... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21:24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy.

Again this was clarification by Jesus.

Jesus wasn't saying that people wouldn't get punished. God punishes evil as He is just.

Yet I would agree that Jesus introduced a new concept... Mercy and grace to those who don't deserve it. One that Paul expanded on the OT law as well... Bless those who persecute you. Pray for them! And God says vengeance is His and He will repay.

 

Romans 12:14-21

¹⁴ Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. ¹⁵ Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. ¹⁶ Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. ¹⁷ Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. ¹⁸ If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. ¹⁹ Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” ²⁰ To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” ²¹ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

It goes with...

Deut. 32:35

³⁵ Vengeance is mine, and recompense,

    for the time when their foot shall slip;

for the day of their calamity is at hand,

    and their doom comes swiftly.’

 

and....

 

Psalm 94:1

O Lord, God of vengeance, O God of vengeance, shine forth!

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

So what is the law that the Christians must follow?

 

It's really simple... Love God and love people.

 

Matthew 22:36-40

³⁶ “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”

³⁷ And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. ³⁸ This is the great and first commandment. ³⁹ And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. ⁴⁰ On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

 

 

That commandment "is the great and first commandment", but not all the Law that Jesus Christ commands us in the Gospel ... Now I put the commandments of Jesus Christ:

 

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12)

 

What God wants is the mercy  

 

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent"   (Matthew 12:7)

 

Jesus commanded to forgive seventy times seven:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18 :21-22)

 

Jesus speaks to the  pharisees about the Law

 

When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had left the Sadducees speechless, they met together. One of them, a legal expert, tested him. Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands”  (Matthew 22:34-40)

 

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

 

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?   And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.   He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,  Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.  The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet?   Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.   But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions"  (Matthew 19:16-22)

 

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.  All the commandments of the Old Testament that bear no mercy were abolished by Jesus Christ. 

 

Interesting that this is a repeat partially of what you said and Why do you keep repeating yourself and copying/pasting the same things over and over again? Curious.

We can agree that Jesus did indeed teach mercy, forgiveness 70 x 7 (basically offer forgiveness to anyone who repents to those who would hear such a statement when Jesus said it), love God, love people, follow Jesus, give to the poor, and store up treasures in Heaven.

However, when you say that Jesus commandments were different than those in the Old Testament I would tend to disagree. So when you say all the commandments of the OT that bear no mercy were abolished by Jesus Christ do you mean (besides the examples already given)...

 

The moral laws of the OT are no longer in effect?

Homosexuality for example is not a sin?

Please don't copy and paste a response already given in this thread.

God bless,

GE

[nebula]

 

So, do you believe that God did not give the Mosaic covenant and law?

 

Hello, Qnts2.  The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

 

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24:5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord : Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men :

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,

This people honors me with their lips;

But their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me,

Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

 

Dear friend, this is what I think happened, what the prophets tell us: that God's law was changed by the scribes. This is for what the Old Testament Law is direrente to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

Hello porque - 

 

It is grievous that you would interpret the Scriptures this way.

 

If you understood anything about the Hebrew culture, you would know that the actual Torah itself was carefully guarded, so much so that if it was found even one letter was was written incorrectly in a particular scroll, that scroll would be burned and destroyed.

 

It is not the written Torah that the Scribes changed. What was changed from the Torah was the "oral law".

 

The Written Law is another name for the Torah. The Oral Law is a legal commentary on the Torah, explaining how its commandments are to be carried out. 

 

<snip>

 

For these three reasons-the frequent lack of details in Torah legislation, the incomprehensibility of some terms in the Torah, and the objections to following some Torah laws literally — an Oral Law was always necessary.

 

Strangely enough, the Oral Law today is a written law, codified in the Mishna and Talmud. Orthodox Judaism believes that most of the oral traditions recorded in these books dates back to God's revelation to Moses on Mount Sinai. When God gave Moses the Torah, Orthodoxy teaches, He simultaneously provided him all the details found in the Oral Law. It is believed that Moses subsequently transmitted that Oral Law to his successor, Joshua, who transmitted it to his successor, in a chain that is still being carried on (Ethics of the Fathers 1:1).

 

Given this chain of authority, one might wonder why the Mishna and Talmud are filled with debates between rabbis; shouldn't they have all been recipients of the same, unambiguous tradition? Orthodox teachers respond that the debates came about either because students forgot some of the details transmitted by their teachers, or because the Oral Law lacks specific teachings on the issue being discussed.

 

While Conservative and Reform Judaism also believe that some kind of Oral Law was always necessary to make the Torah comprehensible and workable, they reject the belief that most of the Talmud dates back to Moses' time. They are more apt to see the Talmud and the Oral Law as an evolving system, in which successive generations of rabbis discussed and debated how to incorporate the Torah into their lives. Thus, they feel more free than the Orthodox to ignore, modify, or change the Oral Law.

 

Source

 

 

Recall that when Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus responded by quoting the words written in Deuteronomy. 

[OneLight]

You say that all the commandments for you is the same, but Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament, precepts that were contrary to the precepts of the Gospel.

 

Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says :

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce . Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution , makes her commit adultery , and whoever marries a divorced , commits adultery" (Matthew 5 : 31-32)

 

The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments . These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

 

I'm not sure that you are using the term "abolished" correctly.

 

Well if you're not sure if I'm using it right, you must appeal to the Gospel, because I just say what the Gospel says.

<<< See and >>>

 

Hmmm, never is the word abolish used in scripture when Jesus spoke of the laws.

 

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

 

Jesus did abolish though, the flesh and death.

 

Ephessians 2:14-16

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

 

2 Timothy 1:9-11

Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

[Porque77]

 

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men :

 

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,

This people honors me with their lips;

But their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me,

Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9)

Dear friend, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: that God's law was changed by the scribes. This is for what the Old Testament Law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

 

The Word Of God

 

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

 

Straight From The Law Man

 

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:16

 

~

 

Thank You Beloved For Standing For Truth

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

Be Blessed

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

 

Thanks for your answer.

The Act wich would not pass one jot or tittle, and that was given forever, is the law of Jesus Christ, because He himself tells us that this is the Law and the Prophets:

 

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12)

[Porque77]

 

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

 

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24:5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord : Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men :

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,

This people honors me with their lips;

But their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me,

Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

 

Dear friend, this is what I think happened, what the prophets tell us: that God's law was changed by the scribes. This is for what the Old Testament Law is direrente to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

It is not the written Torah that the Scribes changed. What was changed from the Torah was the "oral law".

 

 

Hello nebula. 

 

The prophet Jeremiah said this:

" ... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us ? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8:7-9) .

 

Jeremiah says nothing of the oral law. Jeremiah refers to the written law, because Jeremiah talk about the lying pen of the scribes.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Porque77

[Fez]

That's a lot of scripture and a lot of explaining to get down to the one fact that many on this thread have said over and over.

 

It's about Love, agape Love.

 

Simple really......

[Porque77]

 

Hmmm, never is the word abolish used in scripture when Jesus spoke of the laws.

 

Matthew 5:17

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

 

The law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

"Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets ... " (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish many commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament , as we see in Matthew 5:21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.   

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5:17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:  

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

[Guest man]

So what is the law that the Christians must follow?

 

 

That question has been answered many times in this thread.