WN: Treasury: Under Obama, U.S Gov't Debt Held by Public Up 90% -

[JDavis]

 

The bible tells us to be smart.  You don't go into debt over what you can afford.  This government has done that.  We were not created to be fools and spends foolishly, but alas many do.

 

 

Credit Cards etc...aside.  My example was more towards writing checks, if you write a bad check there are consequences, sometimes even jail. 

 

Not only that, just because a vast majority spends money they don't have doesn't mean its right or acceptable.  I think that that attitude is now coming to head, and will probably soon explode in all of our faces.

 

 

 right or acceptable is not the issue with raising the debt limit, paying our obligations is. 

 

And yes, our government has spent money they did not have, and one can only blame those that vote for the people for this.

 

And again, I know this is a very unpopular position...but Christian Conservatives are very much to blame for this (myself included) because for the last 15 to 20 years we have elected people that were social Conservatives and fiscal liberals because of one issue...abortion.  We have put that one issue above all else and the result is a bunch of people that call themselves "pro-life" (even though the rate of ababortioner pregnancy is the same now as it was in 1974) that spend money like drunken sailors.

 

At this point in time there is not a party that does not spend too much money.

[Steve_S]

 

 

The bible tells us to be smart.  You don't go into debt over what you can afford.  This government has done that.  We were not created to be fools and spends foolishly, but alas many do.

 

 

Credit Cards etc...aside.  My example was more towards writing checks, if you write a bad check there are consequences, sometimes even jail. 

 

Not only that, just because a vast majority spends money they don't have doesn't mean its right or acceptable.  I think that that attitude is now coming to head, and will probably soon explode in all of our faces.

 

 

 right or acceptable is not the issue with raising the debt limit, paying our obligations is. 

 

And yes, our government has spent money they did not have, and one can only blame those that vote for the people for this.

 

And again, I know this is a very unpopular position...but Christian Conservatives are very much to blame for this (myself included) because for the last 15 to 20 years we have elected people that were social Conservatives and fiscal liberals because of one issue...abortion.  We have put that one issue above all else and the result is a bunch of people that call themselves "pro-life" (even though the rate of ababortioner pregnancy is the same now as it was in 1974) that spend money like drunken sailors.

 

At this point in time there is not a party that does not spend too much money.

 

 

I agree, both parties overspend, incredibly excessively. I don't disagree with your point that we have elected people that were socially conservative and fiscally liberal, but your premise may be a bit off. Could it possibly be because there are a lot of socially conservative and fiscally liberal republicans and not because there are dearth of fiscally conservative and socially conservative republicans running for office? My assumption is that it's the former. Our country has, economically, became an ipso facto socialist state. The reasons for this can be argued. I tend to think that a lot of it has to do with entitlements (think social security, medicare). Entitlements and defense basically account for more than the government takes in, by themselves. If you start adding things like the dept. of agriculture with its nearly 100 million a year budget, the FDA, FCC, EPA, etc. etc. etc. (etc. etc. etc. etc.) then it becomes quite, quite clear why we are entering a debt crisis. Right now you have a whole lot of republicans who are receiving entitlement checks from the government and who think that those programs aren't socialist in nature simply because they are part of our political and fiscal fabric of our nation. Socialism, by nature, is redistributional. When any form of rank redistribution becomes acceptable to people who think that they are fiscally conservative then that's going to further and further open the door to more redistribution. Our problem here is, sadly, endemic. I could say right now that social security and medicare are at least as harmful economically as obamacare (they're actually a lot more harmful currently, but probably not in 10 years) and I would get accused (and have been) of wanting to "take away" someones income or otherwise ruin people's lives. I'm not suggesting that we end medicare or social security tomorrow, that would be unfeasible and quite devastating to a lot of people. What I am suggesting is that a sizeable percentage of our country being completely and wholly dependent upon the government for the income that they require for their day to day basic needs then you are going to get what we have right now, a whole bunch of people that think socialism is okay and don't even realize it. 

[nebula]

 

Yet Obama is still hailed as the best thing since sliced bread. Sigh.

 

Forgive me for asking, but who is still saying this?  even most of the liberals I know do not like him...the best thing they seem to be able to say about him is that 'at least he is better than Bush"...which is sort of like being better than the Cubs

 

 

I'm personally acquainted with some die-hard liberal Democrats. 'Nuff said.

[alphaparticle]

 

 

 

The bible tells us to be smart.  You don't go into debt over what you can afford.  This government has done that.  We were not created to be fools and spends foolishly, but alas many do.

 

 

Credit Cards etc...aside.  My example was more towards writing checks, if you write a bad check there are consequences, sometimes even jail. 

 

Not only that, just because a vast majority spends money they don't have doesn't mean its right or acceptable.  I think that that attitude is now coming to head, and will probably soon explode in all of our faces.

 

 

 right or acceptable is not the issue with raising the debt limit, paying our obligations is. 

 

And yes, our government has spent money they did not have, and one can only blame those that vote for the people for this.

 

And again, I know this is a very unpopular position...but Christian Conservatives are very much to blame for this (myself included) because for the last 15 to 20 years we have elected people that were social Conservatives and fiscal liberals because of one issue...abortion.  We have put that one issue above all else and the result is a bunch of people that call themselves "pro-life" (even though the rate of ababortioner pregnancy is the same now as it was in 1974) that spend money like drunken sailors.

 

At this point in time there is not a party that does not spend too much money.

 

 

I agree, both parties overspend, incredibly excessively. I don't disagree with your point that we have elected people that were socially conservative and fiscally liberal, but your premise may be a bit off. Could it possibly be because there are a lot of socially conservative and fiscally liberal republicans and not because there are dearth of fiscally conservative and socially conservative republicans running for office? My assumption is that it's the former. Our country has, economically, became an ipso facto socialist state. The reasons for this can be argued. I tend to think that a lot of it has to do with entitlements (think social security, medicare). Entitlements and defense basically account for more than the government takes in, by themselves. If you start adding things like the dept. of agriculture with its nearly 100 million a year budget, the FDA, FCC, EPA, etc. etc. etc. (etc. etc. etc. etc.) then it becomes quite, quite clear why we are entering a debt crisis. Right now you have a whole lot of republicans who are receiving entitlement checks from the government and who think that those programs aren't socialist in nature simply because they are part of our political and fiscal fabric of our nation. Socialism, by nature, is redistributional. When any form of rank redistribution becomes acceptable to people who think that they are fiscally conservative then that's going to further and further open the door to more redistribution. Our problem here is, sadly, endemic. I could say right now that social security and medicare are at least as harmful economically as obamacare (they're actually a lot more harmful currently, but probably not in 10 years) and I would get accused (and have been) of wanting to "take away" someones income or otherwise ruin people's lives. I'm not suggesting that we end medicare or social security tomorrow, that would be unfeasible and quite devastating to a lot of people. What I am suggesting is that a sizeable percentage of our country being completely and wholly dependent upon the government for the income that they require for their day to day basic needs then you are going to get what we have right now, a whole bunch of people that think socialism is okay and don't even realize it. 

 

Right, the issue is one of ideological consistency. I find it interesting when people are extremely upset with Obamacare but see no issue with these other programs. Are you or are you not a fiscal conservative? If you are, and you are against Obamacare for that reason, then you must also in principle be against SS and Medicare (though as you said, removing it could and should be a gradual process). None of those thing is feasible economically long term.