The Lie of Hannukah

[Guest shiloh357]

So Jewishheart,

It has been over a week... Do you have anything to offer to support your allegation, or not?

[other one]

Somehow I find this  whole story hard to believe.

Why do you believe one person who comes up with this instead of alot of others believers who are well grounded in what they believe, did you discuss this with a Jewish person who KNOWS?

Who is Rabbi Daniel Kohn?

Thanks, Angels

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About The Author

Rabbi Daniel Kohn is the senior community educator for Lehrhaus Judaica and the Jewish Community Center of San Francisco. He is the author of hundreds of articles for print media and web zines, the book Practical Pedagogy for the Jewish Classroom, and a contributor to the anthology Radical Spirit: Spiritual Writings from the Voices of Tomorrow. Rabbi Kohn lives in the San Francisco area with his wife and daughter.

[JewishHeart]

Shiloh,

Did you check out the websites I posted with info? I found this on search, but knew it was "out there" because my wife learned it in college in Israel. There couldn't be no source for this. Check out the websites I posted.

[Guest power2u]

Botz of course it is interesting that why I am here but let me hear you say what are the implications.

My point is that this is not a major issue that would affect the faith of Christians or proponents of Judaism

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh,

  Did you check out the websites I posted with info? I found this on search, but knew it was "out there" because my wife learned it in college in Israel. There couldn't be no source for this. Check out the websites I posted.

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I saw the websites, but I am not convinced. I want to see the research. You are in Israel, your wife learned it in Israel, so it should be easy to find. I want to see something more substantive.

[JewishHeart]

I am still looking for my wife's material.

Besides this I was thinking about more proof.

Here is a couple issues to ponder on.

1.) The account of the miracle of the oil is not written in the book of the Macabees.

2.) The Saducees, ultimately the predecessors of the Macabees, did not believe in miracles. If the very ancestors of those who experienced and participated in the Hannukah miracle do not believe in miracles, what does that say.

The Pharisees, however, who wrote the Talmud in which the legend of the oil is written; believed in miracles and were vehemently against the Saducees. Do I smell spite here?

3.)

[Guest shiloh357]

1.) The account of the miracle of the oil is not written in the book of the Macabees.

The Books of the Maccabees are highly unreliable as both historical and religious documents. They should not be used as stand alone resources on Jewish history. I am not saying that they are worthless or should not be used at all, but one should use them with extreme caution.

The Saducees, ultimately the predecessors of the Macabees, did not believe in miracles. If the very ancestors of those who experienced and participated in the Hannukah miracle do not believe in miracles, what does that say.

The Pharisees, however, who wrote the Talmud in which the legend of the oil is written; believed in miracles and were vehemently against the Saducees. Do I smell spite here?

The Pharisees during the first and second centuries were comprised of 9 different orders. Each order thought the other eight were morons. So you have Pharisees constantly fighting each other and fighting the Sadducees. Not only that, but there were Pharisees who agreed with Sadducees in issues regarding Temple and certain issues regarding the stringent administration of punishments. I would also like to point out that the Pharisees and Sadducees were unified in their hatred of Messiah. You cannot paint the Pharisees as a monolithic group regarding belief and practice.

Also, the Pharisees were not always known as "Pharisees," but also as the Hasidim. The earliest record we have of the Hasidim goes back c. 250-200 B.C. The Hasidm were in full support of the Maccabean revolt against Antiochus. So, while their name later changed, their theology did not. The Pharisess or "Hasidim who did believe in miracles, were present in that part of Jewish history.

At the time of the Bar Kochba revolt (c. 130-135 A.D), or just after the revolt, which is when you allege this lie to have taken place, the Sadduceess did not exist. After the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., the only religious body to survive (other than the 1st Century Messianic Community) was the Pharisees. Modern Judaism is what the Pharisees became. This occured in the Israeli city of Yavneh in 72 A.D. under the direction of Rabbi Yochannan Ben Zacchail. This means that by the days of Bar Kochba, the Pharisees were no longer called Pharisees. By that time, Pharisaism, was known officially has "Judaism."

The Essenes had been slaughtered, and the Sadducees disentigrated after the destruction of the Temple, seeing that they served as the priests in the 1st Century. So, the Saducees were not around to be spiteful against.

All I am seeing at this point is conjecture. I am waiting for the research. I want something I can cross-examine.

[Trinity]

You are so right shiloh, and remember alot of Israel's Historical records were destroyed by rome in i think 100 A.D.

[Guest yod]

My guess (and only a guess) is that part of the Hanukkah story is probably more legend than fact, but it's not a biggie.

There are still lessons to be learned from the Hanukkah story either way just as there are lessons we can teach our children about the "lie" of Christmas or Easter.

Evidently Yeshua had some kind of observance of this day or it wouldn't have been mentioned in John 10:22-39

[Botz]

I thought this article by Rabbi Yaakov Menken was a good account of the heart of Chanukah...and even ends up on a conciliatory note of hope that Christians can also truely appreciate.

Chanukah - The Real Story ...By Rabbi Yaakov Menken

The story of Chanukah is one of the most well-known among the Jewish holidays. As the Chofetz Chaim writes in his preface to the Laws of Chanukah, the Jews "came up onto the Temple Mount, and could not find pure oil in the Temple -- with the exception of a single container bearing the seal of the High Priest. There was only a single day's supply of oil in this container, but a miracle occurred. They lit the Menorah from it for eight days, until they were able to press olives and extract pure oil."

Many Jewish children cannot tell you what Shavuos celebrates (the holiday of the Giving of the Torah), but they know the Chanukah story well!

Or do they?

The truth is that the story of Chanukah is much greater than the story of the Menorah alone. In fact, the oil is such a minor detail that our Sages omitted it from the special prayer "for the miracles" which they added to the daily prayers during the holiday.

To learn the more critical elements of the story, we can read the Chofetz Chaim's preface from the beginning. "During the Second Temple period, an evil [Greek] kingdom ruled and enacted decrees upon Israel. They nullified their religion, and did not permit them to involve themselves with Torah and Mitzvos. They took their property and their daughters. They entered the Temple, violated its sanctity, and defiled the pure. And this was very painful upon Israel...

"Until the G-d of our forefathers had mercy upon them, and rescued them from [the Greeks]. And the Chashmonayim [Hasmoneans], of the house of the High Priest, were victorious over them... and the Kingdom was restored to Israel for more than 200 years, until the Destruction of the Second Temple."

Compared to the restoration of Jewish practices to the Holy Temple, freedom to practice Judaism, and an end to Greek oppression of the Jews -- now we understand why the miracle of the Menorah was omitted. It is almost trivial by comparison.

In fact, according to Jewish Law, it was not even necessary. It takes a full week to purify oneself from a state of impurity. In a situation where most of the people are in an impure state, Jewish law permits them to perform Temple services while still impure, even though they pass impurity to the vessels and objects used. In other words, they could have lit the Menorah using impure oil, when no pure oil was available!

Why, then, is the miracle of the oil so important to the story? Why do we light our own Menorahs throughout the holiday? To understand this, we must try to look at Chanukah from the eyes of those who experienced it.

This was truly a dark period in Jewish history. When the Greeks came, they did not merely exert military control -- as the Chofetz Chaim wrote, they also worked to nullify the Jewish religion. They were successful to a considerable extent, to the point that many Jews abandoned Judaism in favor of idolatry. When the Greeks set up a stadium in Jerusalem, many Jews participated, even though the original Greek games were conducted in the nude. The Jews were so contaminated by Greek thinking that these athletes attempted to hide the signs of their circumcision, because the Greeks considered the body perfect in its natural state.

In the midst of this darkness, a small group of Jews led a revolution. They not only faced the Greek Army -- unfortunately this war was Jew against Jew as well. And when they regained the Temple Mount, they found it in a contaminated state, with idols set up within the Temple itself.

Had the Jews, in fact, strayed so far that the Hasmonean rebellion was futile? Was there to be another exile -- as actually came to pass, 200 years later?

In this context, we can see the miracle of the oil for what it truly was: a sign from Heaven. It was a message from G-d that He was still watching over the Jews, and accepted their return. No matter how far we have strayed, the message of the Chanukah lights remains the same: we can always return, we can always rededicate ourselves -- and G-d is always waiting for us.

From torah.org