Reasons Why God Allows Suffering?

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

PS - there is still no response to WHY God laid ALL sickness and disease on Jesus' body at the cross if you want to insist that God desires to place it on His children. This question must be answered, and when it is, you will have to concede that God is forever against all sickness and disease, and never uses it to get glory (He does heal and THEN people glorify Him, but the point is in reference to trying to say it's part of His plan for His children).

 

The other question that still has no answer is: if sickness and disease are so wonderful and part of God's plan for us, then WHY isn't it Eden, Heaven or Jesus' ministry? Those are the only 3 places you see God's perfect will being done. And in ALL of them there is no sickness or disease.

 

You don't see Jesus going around saying, "You still need to be saved, let Me put some cancer on you so that you can draw near to God," or "Let's give you leukemia so you can speak to the doctors that would try to help you and see if you can get them saved."

No, everytime, Jesus 100% annihilates EVERY form of sickness and disease. Now if, as you insist, God uses cancer/leukemia to win them to Christ, why didn't Jesus do that? Why won't sickness or disease exist in Heaven where God's perfect will will be done forever? Why wasn't it in Eden, to "teach" Adam and Eve, etc?

 

These questions MUST be answered, and there is no answer save one: God hates sickness and disease and it is NEVER part of His plan.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

And then to top it all off:

 

If these people are sick with cancer and leukemia and you say that, while you now consent that perhaps God is not sending it, you still say He is allowing it (but we've already proven that according to the Psalms, seeing a sin and not speaking up is the same as committing the sin, then God not sending it but allowing the Devil to do it is the same as Him sending it - even our own laws do that here in the USA (getaway driver will be charged with murder if the bank robber murders someone, though he didn't do the crime)) by allowing the Devil to do it, then these people are in REBELLION for trying to get well!

 

For if you say God allowed sickness as part of His divine plan to get glory for Himself (when in the Scriptures no one gave God any glory for being sick, they gave it to Him when Jesus healed them), then they are in absolute rebellion by trying to get well. These parents should let their child either die or hold out that God might somehow allow him to get better, after enough medical people get saved that he's able to witness to (if he fills God's unknowable quota, that is). These person's mother should just let the cancer do whatever it's going to do, for you call it God's plan; it would be hippocritical to try to get well, and SIN; blatant disobedience to the will of God.

 

Now of course, anyone reading this will understand that the only entity getting any glory out of sickness and disease is the Devil, because if he can get you sick and then get you to think God did it/allowed it (the same thing), you will not go to God to get healed (why would you if you think He wants you sick?) and then you will suffer and the more people that get subjected to this fabulous lie, the better for the Devil, because he gradually defeats and renders impotent the whole Church, because they think God just does whatever and who knows what He's up to...

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

And finally, building on this perfect platform:

 

HOW is Jesus, the Son of God, God Himself in the flesh as one of us, going around HEALING literally EVERYONE that comes to Him, CORRECTING the Father, Who is perfect, by saying, "Father, you made a mistake, I know your will is that you allowed these people to get sick by allowing the Devil to do it to them, but I want them healed, so I correct you by healing them."

What is the answer for that? There is no way anyone can come up with any answer to justify that. Because, again, wherever you see God's perfect will (Eden, Jesus' ministry and Heaven) you will NEVER see sickness/disease/affliction/suffering/fear/terror/oppression. EVER. And to sound like a broken record again, these things all end up in the Lake of Fire burning with the Devil for all eternity.

So again, in light of all these last 4 posts (particularly the last 3), HOW can anyone ever dare to say suffering is part of God's plan for His Church? The blueprint is Jesus, Who again, only suffered at the cross as the Lamb of God in order to pay the purchase price that had to be paid in order to legally buy us back from the hand of the Devil and restore us to the original condition we had in Eden before Adam committed high treason.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

The Bible says Put on the garment for the spirit of heaviness.

 

I might add that the Bible NEVER said this, you did.

 

Isaiah 61:3 "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified." 

 

God says to appoint unto them that mourn (over the sin of Israel) in Zion, to give them the garment of praise FOR the spirit of heaviness. Which means the garment of praise GETS RID of the spirit of heaviness. You are not instructed to take on a garment of the spirit of heaviness. You are given the garment of praise in place of the spirit of heaviness (to remove it). 

Edited November 18, 2013 by GoldenEagle
To differentiate Scripture in blue

[Mike]

To me. The reason God allows suffering in our life is that we can become DEPENDENT on him so we know that if anything bad occurs in our life, we know that God is right there and ready to LISTEN TO OUR PRAYERS!!! Another reason is when God gets us out of it, we can tell other Christians that, "I suffered from this 2 months ago and I am feeling great now!!!" And we can remind them on how Good God is and encourage those who has suffering in their life to KEEP ON GOING and to NOT GIVE UP!!! That is what I think!!!

 

God bless you all!!

[EndSeeker]

I didn't read this whole thread i will get to it later so it could contain some same answers but i was anxious to post this..: The following is an article that was in my study bible, it has many articles like this that deal with theology and answers to difficult questions. I wrote and added the last paragraph

 

Why does God allow evil?

 

When ever something terrible happens, ex; shootings, massacres etc.. A common question on peoples minds is "If God could prevent such a massacre, why didn't he?" This question can be put in different ways but always implies that if God is all-good and all-powerful, He would choose to destroy all evil. Why then does evil exist?

 

Many think that the existence of evil proves God doesn't exist. But our ability to recognize and distinguish good from evil is a reason to believe in God. If there was no God there would be no objective, universal standard by which to measure good and evil. Since everyone agree good and evil are real distinctions, there must be an independent, eternal standard to ground moral standards. That standard is God.

 

That being the case, many still wonder why God would allow evil to occur. Some philosophers claim that the existence of evil is logically incompatible with the existence of an all-good all-powerful God...or "if God exists, evil cannot, if evil exists, God cannot."
God and evil are logically contradictory thus cannot coexist in the real world...untrue

Very few philosophers think this disagreement is successful. After all it is logically possible that the one true God, though He is all-powerful all-knowing, has a GOOD reason to allow EVIL to exist, or as i like to say GOD reason.

For instance, one reason God allows evil is preserving human freewill. If we have genuine freedom, then we have the possibility of choosing to do evil. God is certainly powerful enough to stop us from doing evil, but He would be taking away our freewill by doing so.
In order for us to have genuine free choices, God allows us the freedom of choosing evil. He cannot make us choose the good. If He does, we are not free.

There are other reasons God allows evil to occur... If we didn't have to cope with evil, we wouldn't develop such virtues as empathy, patience, and trusting God as our Savior.. etc.

Without the ability to choose and exercise freewill or the opportunity to develop virtue, our lives would be shallow and without love; we couldn't truly love one another or love God.
We would essentially be "robots" without the ability to have a relationship with God, and that loving relationship is ultimately what He desires with us.

 

Though it is reasonable for God and evil to coexist, some say the presence of so much evil makes it hard to believe in God. However this a subjective judgement. How much evil is too much? Who but God can say? We do know from a story like that of Joseph, that evil can be used for good in God's hands. Joseph said to his brothers:
"You planned evil against me; God planned it for good to bring about the present result, the survival of many people" (Genesis 50:20)

Evil also exists because Lucifer and a legion of fallen angels fell from heaven down to earth, causing many to suffer through demonic entities, which they became. Many of them were sentenced to Hell, a place God created for them. Other demons still roam about until the day of the final judgement..
We are all troubled by evil, but God has dealt evil a fatal blow through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[GoldenEagle]

There is so much to respond to here... 

 

 

I think we need to re-focus our discussion here. What are 3 points (in a sentence or two) you'd like to bring up TheCursedOfTheRodain? Let's discuss those 3 and then I'll present 3 points for discussion. How does that sound? Otherwise the posts are pretty overwhelming (and possibly looses meaning or become meaningless?) and a lot of what is said is lost in the midst of it all.

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

To me. The reason God allows suffering in our life is that we can become DEPENDENT on him so we know that if anything bad occurs in our life, we know that God is right there and ready to LISTEN TO OUR PRAYERS!!! Another reason is when God gets us out of it, we can tell other Christians that, "I suffered from this 2 months ago and I am feeling great now!!!" And we can remind them on how Good God is and encourage those who has suffering in their life to KEEP ON GOING and to NOT GIVE UP!!! That is what I think!!!

 

God bless you all!!

Hey Mike this is a good point.

I think sometimes people forget that God is less interested in our strength and more interested in our weakness. Meaning that in our weakness He is shown to be strong and we are shown to be dependent on HIm.

Re: Keep on going and not give up... Reminds me of this song:

 

God bless,

GE

 

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

Okay Brother GoldenEagle:

 

#1) *since God is not CAUSING it: How can God "allow" suffering (as in, saying "Yes, Satan, go do whatever you want to My children" that I just gave My Son for)? For in the Psalms David said that anyone not speaking up against someone sinning is guilty of the same sin in the eyes of God (and this is the root of why we have laws here like the getaway driver being charged with murder if the bank robber murdered someone even though he didn't do it himself); so with this, you would be accusing God by His own laws that HE is causing the suffering by "allowing" Satan to do it to you.

 

#2) WHY did God the Father lay ALL sickness and disease on Jesus' body at the cross, and then say "By His stripes, ye were healed."? What purpose did this serve and why did God lay all sickness and disease on HIS body? (Hint: it wasn't for HIS sake, in the same way that at the cross Jesus didn't become poor for HIS sake, and at the cross Jesus didn't use His faith to take on ALL sin into His body for HIS sake). Now why would God do that? What did God accomplish with that, and WHY?

 

#3) If sickness and disease are BLESSINGS as you contend, and we had ALL blessings in Eden and Jesus ONLY blessed, and we will have ALL blessings in Heaven, then WHY won't sickness or disease exist in Heaven? I mean, if they're so wonderful - why do they get thrown into the Lake of Fire with the Devil, rather than be our teacher or a blessing to us? There is no answer to this question other than, because sickness and disease are part of the CURSE, NOT the Blessing of the Lord. Every place blessing is defined, there is no mention or example of it being sickness or disease, rather, it is fruitfulness, increase, multiplication, authority and power.

 

There is no example of Jesus, the PERFECT will of God Himself, saying, "You know what, I haven't been able to get in to speak to those doctors, let me put cancer on you Peter, to bless you, and then you can witness to them about Me..."

Rather, EVERY time Jesus comes across people who want to be healed, what does He do? BOOM. He annihilates EVERY sickness and disease. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus is the same forever, and if He didn't use sickness or disease to witness or get people saved, WHY are you insisting that people try to do that today?

Besides, if you really think sickness or disease is a blessing, then what are you doing trying to get well? You're in rebellion to God to try to get well - you should be suffering and suffering and suffering, all to the glory of God, so that some poor people can get saved...
Of course, this is baloney and the only one who wins with thinking that sickness and disease is a blessing is the Devil - who is the one who put it on you and then gets the glory as you blame God and stay defeated, passing on your defeated experience to the rest of the church world. HEALING is a blessing, not cancer.

[GoldenEagle]

Okay Brother GoldenEagle:

 

#1) *since God is not CAUSING it: How can God "allow" suffering (as in, saying "Yes, Satan, go do whatever you want to My children" that I just gave My Son for)? For in the Psalms David said that anyone not speaking up against someone sinning is guilty of the same sin in the eyes of God (and this is the root of why we have laws here like the getaway driver being charged with murder if the bank robber murdered someone even though he didn't do it himself); so with this, you would be accusing God by His own laws that HE is causing the suffering by "allowing" Satan to do it to you.

 

Okay let's start with #1. This is an excellent question in bold red... How can God allow suffering? How about the first chapter of Job? I'd be interested in your take on this passage and in particular for the verses in bold.

 

Job 1:1-22

Job's Character and Wealth

1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil. ² There were born to him seven sons and three daughters. ³ He possessed 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, and 500 female donkeys, and very many servants, so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the east. ⁴ His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. ⁵ And when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send and consecrate them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my children have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did continually.

 

Satan Allowed to Test Job

⁶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. ⁷ The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” ⁸ And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” ⁹ Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? ¹⁰ Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. ¹¹ But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” ¹² And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Satan Takes Job's Property and Children

 

¹³ Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house, ¹⁴ and there came a messenger to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them, ¹⁵ and the Sabeans fell upon them and took them and struck down the servants^[c] with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” ¹⁶ While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” ¹⁷ While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, “The Chaldeans formed three groups and made a raid on the camels and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” ¹⁸ While he was yet speaking, there came another and said, “Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house, ¹⁹ and behold, a great wind came across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young people, and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”

 

²⁰ Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. ²¹ And he said, “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”

 

²² In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.